What is your absolute final authority?

[AVBunyan]

Since you admit the final authority already existed before 1611, implying that another final authority was created in 1611 would seem to be creating two final authorities.

I believe you misquoted me - I said the word of God was around prior to 1611 - my final authority today is a King James Bible. Two different statements and ideas.

I'm talking about right now - today - what is your FINAL authority? Some folks don't have one - no big deal - but if one says they have one then what is it? I'm still trying to see how some of the answers that have been given can be a FINAL authority. Again - not here to dispute a person's final authority but when one says "any valid bible" or multiple versions, etc. then where is the Finality in those types of statements?

 

[Keith M]

I've never looked at the Geneva, Tyndale, etc.. in depth.
I did see a page or two from them at the scriptorium in Florida which was pretty cool.
The question I have is do all the bibles before the King James differ other than spelling?

Why don't you go over to http://www.studylight.org and see for yourself? There are several pre-1611 versions available online. You can also compare the 1611 KJV and the 1769 KJV as well as many modern versions.

 

[Keith M]

you misquote me - I said the word of God was around prior to 1611 - my final authority today is a King James Bible.

Right there is the cause and root of your problem, AVBunyan! Everyone's final authority should be the Holy Spirit and not a printed version of the Bible. It is sad that you have fallen so deeply into the KJVO myth that your final authority is the KJV and not the Holy Spirit.

 

[AVBunyan]

I answered your questions, Mr. Bunyan...now, will you please answer mine?

No -

I do not respond to your posts or your responses to my posts anymore - nothing personal - no malice - You are welcome to pick my posts apart or whatever but do not expect me to respond to you anymore. I just think it will help the atmosphere of the forum.

If you want to believe it is because I cannot handle your questios regarding my stand on the King James Bible then that is fine.

 

[robycop3]

No -

I do not respond to your posts or your responses to my posts anymore - nothing personal - no malice - You are welcome to pick my posts apart or whatever but do not expect me to respond to you anymore. I just think it will help the atmosphere of the forum.

If you want to believe it is because I cannot handle your questios regarding my stand on the King James Bible then that is fine.

And right now, I so do believe...not outta malice toward you, but because deep down inside you *KNOW* I'm right, but right now you think more of your myth than the TRUTH.

You asked some questions, which I and several others answered...but now, you don't wanna answer mine. Typical KJVO response. You're not doing your cause a bitta good with such actions, but instead, are displaying the behavior which draws the fire upon the advocates of KJVO.

Does your final authority tell you to participate in a one-sided discussion? Or, does it tell ya to DWELL IN ALL TRUTH?

Your failure to respond merely tells us you CANNOT RESPOND TRUTHFULLY without denying your myth.

 

[HankD]

The Word of God is the final absolute authority:

Which one?

This one.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

 

[steveo]

Why don't you go over to http://www.studylight.org and see for yourself? There are several pre-1611 versions available online. You can also compare the 1611 KJV and the 1769 KJV as well as many modern versions.

Thanks, thats pretty cool, I will have to compare.
I have some of the newer translations and I know that the end of Mark is questioned and some other verses. If it was just spelling only, I would say thats a big difference over verses differing.
I would say I'm KJV preferred, mainly because of the confusion of us trying to use multiple versions in ss class and preaching. We wanted to use one and thats the one we use and like at our church.

 

[James_Newman]

Right there is the cause and root of your problem, AVBunyan! Everyone's final authority should be the Holy Spirit and not a printed version of the Bible. It is sad that you have fallen so deeply into the KJVO myth that your final authority is the KJV and not the Holy Spirit.

The only problem with your authority is that the Bible tells you to test the spirits. If every tickle in your ear is the Holy Spirit, then I guess you have nothing to worry about. But if you were to test the spirits, how would you do that without the Bible? Sounds kinda circular to me. Test the Bible with the Spirit, test the Spirit with the Bible... If I can't rely on one of them to be correct, I'm going to go insane trying to figure out what God wants from me.

 

[av1611jim]

I would add to JJumps comments to Keith;
You would not even know the Holy Spirit existed were it not for your Bible.
Therefore, you, and everyone else who says the Holy Spirit is their final authority, are parroting some comment some fellow made; and thinking it sounds 'spiritual' to say it, they repeat it without thinking about it.

But upon further examination of such thoughtless remarks, we find there is no substance to such a comment. Or do you not know that....
2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So you have no "final authority" unless and until you submit to the Scriptures. It is IMPOSSIBLE to grown in grace and the knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord without the Bible.

The OP's question is valid. WHAT is your final authority?

 

[AVBunyan]

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

This response is simliar to answering, "God is my final authority." Sounds good and is right in a sense but how do you know what the Word says? Or, how do you know what the Word woud have you do?

God bless

 

[Logos1560]

I believe you misquoted me - I said the word of God was around prior to 1611 -

I had asked you this question: Is your question suggesting that the final authority beyond which there is no other did not exist before 1611?

You answered: "Of course not - where did you get that from? - I never said the word of God was not around prior to 1611."

To me, your answer "of course not" denied that you were suggesting that the final authority did not exist before 1611. Thus, to me your answer would be suggesting that a final authority did exist before 1611. Now in your later response, you do seem to be denying that the final authority existed before 1611 in order to avoid admitting that your posts would be suggesting the existence of two final authorities. Are you then also saying that that word of God that was around prior to 1611 was not the final authority? On what consistent basis can you suggest that the word of God before 1611 was not the final authority but the word of God after 1611 must be the final authority?

 

[Ed Edwards]

I've never looked at the Geneva, Tyndale, etc.. in depth.
I did see a page or two from them at the scriptorium in Florida which was pretty cool.
The question I have is do all the bibles before the King James differ other than spelling?

Yes.

Does the Greek New Testament differ from the
King James Versions other than spelling?

Yes. The Greek New Testament differs from the
KJVs in punctuation. Generaly the early Greek
had no punctuation. And just for good measue, my
KJV1611 Edition varies frequently IN PUNCTUATION from from my
un-self-proclaimed KJV1769 Edition.

 

[Ed Edwards]

AVBunyan: // ... how do you know what the Word says?//

[sarcasm mode=humor] The Word says what my preacher
man says it means. And if I don't say it with just the
same words & same tone of voice as my 'priest/bishop/pastor', then I ain't
got it right yet [/sarcasm]

 

[AVBunyan]

On what consistent basis can you suggest that the word of God before 1611 was not the final authority but the word of God after 1611 must be the final authority?

Look, I am trying honest and up front here. I admit in the heat of the battle I may not make myself very clear or even know what I am doing sometimes - this is a difficult subject to deal with. Some of you just try to pick and find what is wrong instead of trying to find what is right. I do not have all the answers and take my position by faith.

I’ll be honest and tell you what I believe:

1. I believe the word of God was around prior to 1611 in the Tyndale, Geneva, Bishops, German bible, early Gothic, foreign versions based upon those, others, etc.

2. I do not know if there was a “final” or one “standard” back prior too 1611. I just do not understand what was going on back then. The word of God was al over the place though

3. I do vehemently believe there is one final authority today that judges all others – it is an English King James Bible. I believe foreign translations based upon the English KJV or the manuscripts it came from are reliable and God has blessed them but there is one standard – an English King James Bible.

Why does this bother some of you folks so?

 

[Ed Edwards]

AVBunyan: //I do not respond to your posts or your responses to my posts anymore - nothing personal - no malice - You are welcome to pick my posts apart or whatever but do not expect me to respond to you anymore. I just think it will help the atmosphere of the forum.//

I note Brother AVBunyan IAW (In Accordance With) 2 Thessalonians 3:14

2 Thessalonians 3:14 (KJV1611 Edition)
And if any man obey not our word, by this Epistle
note that man, and haue no company with him, that he may be ashamed,
15 Yet count him not as an enemie, but admonish him as a brother.

I further note that rejecting the encouragement of
Bro Robycop3 leaves one scrubbing in the bottom of the
barrel here in this forum.

Again, it is more logical and loving to assume:

God has given us all scripture (including all Versions)
for our own and for mutual edification. If there is any
seeming 'disagreement' between any two parts of the
scripture - said 'disagreement' can be resolved by discussion
between Competent Saved Souls.

Than to assume:

God cannot speak to me in more than one translation

Needless to say, I find Brother Robocop3 among the
top 10 most 'competent saved souls' here. So I get to learn
a lot from him.

 

[tinytim]

3. I do vehemently believe there is one final authority today that judges all others – it is an English King James Bible. I believe foreign translations based upon the English KJV or the manuscripts it came from are reliable and God has blessed them but there is one standard – an English King James Bible.

Why does this bother some of you folks so?

Here is why it "bothers some of us".

We are Baptists...
One of the main beliefs of Baptists is the final authority of the Bible.
IOWs when something is called into question, The Bible is the ultimate authority, not the opinions of men.

Now you said that you "vehemently" believe the KJV is the final authority.

From where do you base this doctrine?
Show us from anywhere in the Bible, the KJV where we are to only use one translation/version of the scriptures.

If this is a belief that you would "vehemently" defend, you must know why biblically.

I used to be like you... I preached about the corruptions of the NIV and all others. Until someone challenged me. I then went and did the footwork myself. I read all the information I could on this subject. I was thoroughly confused... until one day, I looked up to Heaven and asked Jesus if He was on Earth today what would He read.

And a thought occured to me.... When Jesus walked on the Earth He read a version of the OT. Then I started wondering was this the same version of the OT that the KJV was translated from. I did the research.

Guess what, the proof is in the KJV! Compare Luke 4:16-21 and Isaiah 61:1-2 You will see a difference.

Then I asked, "why the difference?"

Which led me to further research...
Here is the summary of that research... What Jesus read in Luke is from a different family of manuscripts than the KJV was translated from....

So there was proof that Jesus read from a different version than the KJV.

And that was good enough for me...

The proof is in the Bible that Jesus used a different version.
Where is the proof in the Bible that we should only use one?

If it is there, then we need to find the one that Jesus used and throw all others away. But I'm not ready to throw my KJV away... I love it too much.

 

[gb93433]

Two simple questions – not here to challenge or debate – just wondering:

1. Do you have one absolute final authority?

2. If you do then what is your absolute final authority?

1. Yes

2. The same God that existed before the beginning of creation. The same God that is the same before yesterday, now and beyond eternity.

 

[Deacon]

"As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God..."
Romans 8:14

 

[Ed Edwards]

[sarcasm mode=humor]Sing to the tune of 'The Solid Rock':

My hope is built on nothing less,
Than Scofield's notes and Broadman Press! [/sarcasm]

 

[HankD]

Dear brother AV Bunyan, I like your monicker. If by Bunyan you mean John Bunyan, I was an avid reader of his many books Pilgrim's Progress of course the most famous. Did you know that the Church of England imprisoned him for 12 years for preaching without a CoE license?

But you asked

This response is simliar to answering, "God is my final authority." Sounds good and is right in a sense but how do you know what the Word says? Or, how do you know what the Word woud have you do?

Christ told the Apostles that the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter would come to them and guide them into all Truth. Later He told them

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
The Spirit of Jesus Christ comes to us through the Holy Spirit:​

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:​

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:


God's usual methodolgy in this age is to sanctify us through His Word and the enlightening of the Holy Spirit. However if the Word is not available, I don't think He is powerless to purify us.​

Think of the generations of people over the centuries before the prophets and apostles and the written Word of God was even codified and yet in one of those times He says:​

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man...

HankD​