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What is your final authority?

What is your final authority?

  • You

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The NIV

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The NKJV

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The RSV

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • other

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  • Total voters
    28

Trotter

<img src =/6412.jpg>
This whole circus is a joke. It truly saddens me to see the wilfull ignorance being paraded around here in pride.

No one here is anti-KJV. We are anti-KJVO. We stand against it just as we would stand against any other doctrinal lie.

Now more than ever, "King James Version Onlyism" - the cancer of Christianity.

In Christ,
Trotter
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
KJVBT:You are STILL evading!! How do you know how to consult with your final authority? I can see what He said by going to my (error free,thank you very much) final authority,the King James Bible. I believe every word it says there.

Then you believe all four Gospels, even though they're quite different, almost contradictory, in the one version. For the same reasons I believe every Bible version that's an honest and scholarly effort to translate the ancient Scriptural manuscripts into English.

Don't forget...KJVO is an attempt to LIMIT GOD. Nowhere does God say He's gonna limit Himself to one version only, or that He was gonna retire in 1611, leaving it up to man to distribute His word in the over 2400 languages in which it appears today.
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
KJVBT:Oh,how sad I thought I had found a non KJVO person who had a final authority besides their interpritation of many bibles.

Please tell us...by what criteria do YOU choose your final authority?
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Askjo:That is why you reject Psalm 12 in the KJV. Funny, ASV agrees with the KJV.

BUT...the AV 1611 has this marginal note..."Heb. him, I. euery one of them"
 

Orvie

New Member
Originally posted by RaptureReady:
I have finally read all 15 pages. Let me applaud Michelle, Askjo, and KJVBibleThumper for making a firm stand on God's word, the King James Bible. I do look forward in reading you paper KJVBT.

God bless,
RR
I've just gotten caught up on this thread and let me say that RR, AA, Michelle, 1611 or 1769 Bible Thumper, and Askjo still are entrenched in the man made myth/ tradition.
Repeated Question: What was the Anglican translators Final Authority from 1604-1611, since it had ZERO perfect agreement in MSS, and ancient versions?
AND..What happened to those "jots" and "tittles" btwn 1611 and 1769?
And see the traditionalist of 2 Kings 18:4, who revered the object that at one time was needed, but had become archaic. Sound familar? "If it was good enough for Moses, it's good enough for me." ;)
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
KJVBT:How is "thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever" in error?

The WORDS aren't the error; the error is in the interpretation certain people have made for them.
 

michelle

New Member
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Generally most here at the BB wouldn't take to much exception to what you have posted (although there is a significant difference between the AV1611 and today's 1769-1853 KJV (As you know, the Apocrypha, Calendar of RCC saint's days and other romish inventions taken directly from the 1549 Book of Common Prayer were incorporated into the AV1611 First Edition). The definition of “perfect” needs to be agreed upon. Elizabethan-Jacobean period English has a markedly different vocabulary, grammar and syntax when compared to 21st century “standard” English.
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I said the word of God, I did not say footnotes, maps, apocrypha, etc.

The English of the KJB we have today, is no differrent than the language of today. It is still modern english. Even though many of you think it is not, does in no way justify our condonement or use of those that have altered the word of God in our language. We are to contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints. We are to contend for the truth, and separate from error. We are not to compromise with error. It is like accepting a donut that is laced with arsenic. To the unsuspecting it is pleasing in appearance, and it tastes like a donut, smells like a donut, looks like a donut, but the poison is subtley hidden, and will bring that person to illness and ultimate death if one eats of it.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Askjo:The only one thing is that you argue against the KJV, but why do you not agrue against the ASV? The ASV agrees with the KJV. That explains.

There hasn't been anyone here declaring the ASV is the ONLY valid English BV, while MANY have done it with the KJV. Therefore we tackle that which is before us.
 

michelle

New Member
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The WORDS aren't the error; the error is in the interpretation certain people have made for them.
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To which is what you and many here have done. Many of you are not taking into the consideration, nor the command to rightly divide the word of truth. This is putting you in error of misinterpreting the passage, and particularily that verse, among many others we have debated. You only put on narrowly focused glasses, rather than contacts to which give you the broader understanding of God's truth. We are not to focus solely upon one verse of scripture, but the whole councel of God. The attempts seem to be of the mv proponents, in my observation, that many are only interested in fighting and winning against a false and man-made label to which puts many in the position of claiming and believing the word of God has errors, even sadly at the expense of the truth.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Michelle:You say our interpretationn is incorrect. We say the interpretation of the mv's are incorrect. Which one is correct, and how do you know?

"People", by the av translators' marginal note. The Hebrew only says "natsar", which means "preserve, protect, guard, watch over" among other things, with NO following word for either people or words. Therefore, there are several possibilities open, but the AV men clearly chose PEOPLE as they indicated with their marginal note. The Geneva Bible says, "him".
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Michelle:And HOW[//B] did God say He would do this in not only this passage, but other scriptures also? How is it that God preserves HIS faithful? Please give scriptural support please.

First, He preserved the Israelites from their human enemies. David & his army crushed the Philistines, their longtime foe, as well as Moab, Ammon, and other enemies who happened to be related to Israel. And His preservation of the Jews, easily the most-persecuted distinct people in history, is nothing less tham miraculous.

Furthermore, He has preserved the righteous from the punishment He has decreed for the sinner...the second death.
 

michelle

New Member
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Matthew 7
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
--------------------------------------------------

Read this passage very closely Hank. What is the will of God the Father? How does one know what the will of our Father in Heaven is? How is it that Jesus says to them "I never knew you"? How is it that Jesus doesn't B]know[/B] one?
And if Jesus doesn't know one, how then can that one know him? And if we can Know him, how is it that we know? Were the Apostles assured of their salvation? If so, how did they know? Were the old testament prophets assured of their salvation? If so, how is it they knew? If one had been drowning in water and near death, and someone pulled them out into saftey, do they know that they have been pulled out of that predicament and saved? Or is that subjective also?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

michelle

New Member
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Furthermore, He has preserved the righteous from the punishment He has decreed for the sinner...the second death.
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And how has God done this, and how is it that we know and can know?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

michelle

New Member
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Michelle:You say our interpretationn is incorrect. We say the interpretation of the mv's are incorrect. Which one is correct, and how do you know?

"People", by the av translators' marginal note. The Hebrew only says "natsar", which means "preserve, protect, guard, watch over" among other things, with NO following word for either people or words. Therefore, there are several possibilities open, but the AV men clearly chose PEOPLE as they indicated with their marginal note. The Geneva Bible says, "him".
--------------------------------------------------

And my understanding doesn't come from what the translators "notes" say. My understanding comes from rightly dividing the word of God and from the Holy Spirit of truth, who reveals this truth and understanding to me.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Michelle:The AV1611, or rather the translation of God's word in the Enlgish language of the 1611 is the SAME as the KJB we have today...

No, it ISN'T...and we have BOTH today. Even as I type, I have both a copy of the 1769 KJV AND a replica AV 1611 right in front of me!

An example of difference...the very thing we've been discussing...Psalm 12:7. The translators' marginal note is missing from the 1769...as is the preface, list of Holy Days, the Apocrypha, etc. And there have been several lists posted with the textual differences.

Many a KJVO hollers, "I'm 1611 KJV ONLY!" when they're actually using a 1769. So, they've built a foundation of sand from the gitgo.

Michelle, you've stated you're NOT KJVO. What other specific version(s) do you recommend?

Failure to answer will only reinforce to the rest of us that &lt;edited by moderator&gt;.


Michelle:We believe you do. Your AUTOGRAPHS-ONLYISM is not scripturally supported, and in fact contradicts the scriptures - I will give many:

robycio3:Where have I ever stated I supported such a belief? I've given you several days to search every message board I use. I post ONLY under the handles robycop3 or Steelmaker(Ezboard).

WHERE'S THE POST, MICHELLE?????????????

THIS AINT GONNA GO AWAY!
You've done this before, attributing some statement to me or others when we've never made such statements. This tells us you're &lt;edited by moderator&gt;

You've ignored this for awhile...now your chickens are coming home to roost. Failure to respond only confirms to the readership that you've told a &lt;edited by moderator&gt;

[ August 18, 2004, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
RaptureI have finally read all 15 pages. Let me applaud Michelle, Askjo, and KJVBibleThumper for making a firm stand on God's word, the King James Bible. I do look forward in reading you paper KJVBT.[/i]

"Firm stand"? Some feller named Custer made one of those once.
 

michelle

New Member
--------------------------------------------------
An example of difference...the very thing we've been discussing...Psalm 12:7. The translators' marginal note is missing from the 1769...as is the preface, list of Holy Days, the Apocrypha, etc. And there have been several lists posted with the textual differences.
--------------------------------------------------

Why is it that you continually refer to the footnotes, maps, and references as the word of God? Can you not tell what is or is not the word of God? If not, why? John 16,17


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

michelle

New Member
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Michelle:We believe you do. Your AUTOGRAPHS-ONLYISM is not scripturally supported, and in fact contradicts the scriptures - I will give many:

robycio3:Where have I ever stated I supported such a belief? I've given you several days to search every message board I use. I post ONLY under the handles robycop3 or Steelmaker(Ezboard).

WHERE'S THE POST, MICHELLE?????????????

THIS AINT GONNA GO AWAY!
You've done this before, attributing some statement to me or others when we've never made such statements. This tells us you're &lt;edited by moderator&gt;

You've ignored this for awhile...now your chickens are coming home to roost. Failure to respond only confirms to the readership that you've told a &lt;edited by
--------------------------------------------------

I have answered this in 3 different posts already to you since that statement and regarding this, and I am not going to do it again. Go search for the answer. I am not going to continue responding/repeating to this again.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Michelle:I said the word of God, I did not say footnotes, maps, apocrypha, etc.

But those things are part of the AV 1611. If God inspired the AV, then those things are in it by God's will. By what authority did those who made later KJV editions remove them, or remove the preface, or the marginal notes?

The English of the KJB we have today, is no differrent than the language of today.

Then why dost not thou writest in this conversation? Dost thou speaketh in this style to thy family?

It is still modern english.

By scholarly classification. By that token, the Model-T is a modern car.


Even though many of you think it is not, does in no way justify our condonement or use of those that have altered the word of God in our language.

It isn't altered; the KJV still reads the same in each edition as it did when each was first published. "Those" haven't ALTERED anything; they've made different versions as God gave them the light.


We are to contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints. We are to contend for the truth, and separate from error.

The faith once delivered to the saints was delivered long before the KJV...or English itself...existed.


We are not to compromise with error. It is like accepting a donut that is laced with arsenic. To the unsuspecting it is pleasing in appearance, and it tastes like a donut, smells like a donut, looks like a donut, but the poison is subtley hidden, and will bring that person to illness and ultimate death if one eats of it.

But you haven't presented any PROOF of error except GUESSWORK AND OPINION. Aren't you concerned that you're WRONG? i know I'M right by empirical evidence...while YOU'RE just HOPING you are. YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE!

Michelle:We believe you do. Your AUTOGRAPHS-ONLYISM is not scripturally supported, and in fact contradicts the scriptures - I will give many:

robycio3:Where have I ever stated I supported such a belief? I've given you several days to search every message board I use. I post ONLY under the handles robycop3 or Steelmaker(Ezboard).

WHERE'S THE POST, MICHELLE?????????????

THIS AINT GONNA GO AWAY!
You've done this before, attributing some statement to me or others when we've never made such statements. This tells us &lt;edited by moderator&gt;, Michelle. Please read what Scripture says about liars. You stand convicted by your own false words such as those above.

You've ignored this for awhile...now your chickens are coming home to roost. Failure to respond only confirms to the readership that you've told a big fat LIE!

&lt;edited by moderator&gt;

(The Castaways, 1965)

&lt;I understand the frustration, but please stop the personal attacks. Roger&gt;

[ August 18, 2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I said the word of God, I did not say footnotes, maps, apocrypha, etc.
These are more pronounced examples of the KJV translators bias toward romish doctrine and their subsequent violence towards believers who opposed them, particularly Anabaptists and dissenters.

The KJVO folks keep bringing up the theology and lifestyle of the MV translators but when we show the fruit of the KJV translators inclination toward their romish teachings and atrocities committed against believers to protect these doctrines, the KJVO balk and are therefore practicing a double standard.

Also the history of these like minded anabaptists and dissenting believers are proof against the false statement that faithful believers have always supported the KJV. In fact they have not, they have given their lives in defense against the "churchianity" of the CofE and several mistranslations of the same eventually fleeing to America.
The English of the KJB we have today, is no differrent than the language of today. It is still modern english. Even though many of you think it is not,
It is different no matter how many times you say it is not. Many places in the KJV are incomprehnsible or confusing and becoming more so with the passage of time, here is proof:

KJV 1 Chronicles 26:16-19
16 To Shuppim and Hosah [the lot came forth] westward, with the gate Shallecheth, by the causeway of the going up, ward against ward.
17 Eastward [were] six Levites, northward four a day, southward four a day, and toward Asuppim two [and] two.
18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, [and] two at Parbar.
19 These [are] the divisions of the porters among the sons of Kore, and among the sons of Merari.

NLT 1 Chronicles 26:16-19
16 Shuppim and Hosah were assigned the west gate and the gateway leading up to the Temple. Guard duties were divided evenly.
17 Six Levites were assigned each day to the east gate, four to the north gate, four to the south gate, and two to each of the storehouses.
18 Six were assigned each day to the west gate, four to the gateway leading up to the Temple, and two to the courtyard.
19 These were the divisions of the gatekeepers from the clans of Korah and Merari.

does in no way justify our condonement or use of those that have altered the word of God in our language.
As the KJV translators (particularly the Anglo-Catholic bishops) did in several passages which I brought to your attention which earned me more accusations from the KJVO self-appointed judges.

We are to contend for the faith once delivered unto the saints. We are to contend for the truth, and separate from error.
I do.
We are not to compromise with error.
I don’t, as an example I don’t compromise the word of God by calling His Passover by the pagan name of the goddess Ishtar (easter).

It is like accepting a donut that is laced with arsenic. To the unsuspecting it is pleasing in appearance, and it tastes like a donut, smells like a donut, looks like a donut, but the poison is subtley hidden, and will bring that person to illness and ultimate death if one eats of it.
You mean like the death that King Henry the 8th (founder of the CofE) King James, the Church of England and the High Council inflicted upon those who would not accept their work with their translation biases, who they had imprisoned, strangled, burned at the stake, had their noses split and ears cut off because they complained about the mistranslations of all the kings men (and “bishops”)?


HankD
 
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