What is Your View of The Atonement By Jesus Christ?

[thatbrian]

No. He doesn't. Neither does Piper or Bell, or McClaren.

Sometimes I provide reference for passages I quote. Sometimes I had rather see how others will react to Scripture apart from advertising they are God's words. So I will have to decline your request.

OK. We're done here.

 

[agedman]

OK. We're done here.

Really?

Is this all you have to offer?

 

[JonC]

OK. We're done here.

Ok. Good talk. Keep digging, brother, and lean on Scripture. I always suggest sticking to Scripture without commentary, form your own view and then research commentaries and books (if your view is new then you can be pretty sure it is wrong). Always go back and review/refine your understanding against the Bible. In this lifetime growth is a never ending process, like sanctification, as we move from glory to glory becoming more and more like Christ.

Never take someone else's belief as your own and never demand others take yours as their own. Always turn to Scripture. And remember, if someone tells you the ink blot is a bat you will see a bat every time. You may grow to see the real picture as well, but that bat will always be an error of which you need to be mindful because sometimes things in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear.

Blessings.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

In your view of Christ's baptism, I'm referring to Christ. Your post seemed to suggest that He was pretending that He was a sinner in His baptism of repentance.

no, I do not suggest this at all. you have completely misread me! Show me how you arrive at this?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

This doesn’t cut correctly with Scripture.

There is a single requirement for salvation.

The gift of God, belief.

None other.

Belief is not accepted as a gift, it is bestowed upon the unbeliever that they confess what they believe.

God does not go about wringing His hands pleading and hoping that in some manner humankind might pay Him attention.

wrong! do you think that you know more than Jesus Himself? You says "single requirement...belief", listen to Jesus, "REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel" (Mark 1:15). I make this TWO!

 

[Rippon]

You assume that God is a child controlled by anger to the point of tantrum, whose anger must placated before anything meaningful can occur.

You should be ashamed of yourself for the above. It is disgraceful.

God's anger is perfectly just. His anger is not sinful. He is thrice Holy.

Does it hurt your pride that God's anger had to be satisfied against sin?

 

[thatbrian]

no, I do not suggest this at all. you have completely misread me! Show me how you arrive at this?

If Jesus was not a sinner (He was not) how could He be baptized with a baptism of repentance? Your answer makes Jesus out to be doing something inauthentic (at best) in His baptism.

Jesus sought baptism for the same reason He died a sinner's death. He did these things as our representative.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

If Jesus was not a sinner (He was not) how could He be baptized with a baptism of repentance? Your answer makes Jesus out to be doing something inauthentic (at best) in His baptism.

Jesus sought baptism for the same reason He died a sinner's death. He did these things as our representative.

so what do you think I said? Re-read my posts!

 

[JonC]

You should be ashamed of yourself for the above. It is disgraceful.

God's anger is perfectly just. His anger is not sinful. He is thrice Holy.

Does it hurt your pride that God's anger had to be satisfied against sin?

You are partially right. God's anger is perfect, holy and just. It is, I believe, often misunderstood as something alienated from His love. But God's anger at sin expresses His own nature and holiness.

You are wrong that I should tolerate as serious repeated, foolish and unsupported remarks that question the very nature of God. I could have been more tactful, but past experience shows tact simply doesn't work with some.

Insofar as your last comment, it does not make sense. God is not a slave to His attributes, but instead His attributes demonstrate His nature. Sin us not something upon which wrath can be focused (God cannot punish the sin, only the sinner). And pride has nothing to do with disagreeing with your theory. That's just smoke to try and get someone to back down through intimidation. I disagree because no passage has shown his view to be correct. It's a matter of Scripture, not pride.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You are partially right. God's anger is perfect, holy and just. It is, I believe, often misunderstood as something alienated from His love. But God's anger at sin expresses His own nature and holiness.

You are wrong that I should tolerate as serious repeated, foolish and unsupported remarks that question the very nature of God. I could have been more tactful, but past experience shows tact simply doesn't work with some.

Insofar as your last comment, it does not make sense. God is not a slave to His attributes, but instead His attributes demonstrate His nature. Sin us not something upon which wrath can be focused (God cannot punish the sin, only the sinner). And pride has nothing to do with disagreeing with your theory. That's just smoke to try and get someone to back down through intimidation. I disagree because no passage has shown his view to be correct. It's a matter of Scripture, not pride.

I think you have a misunderstanding of the very nature of the Atonement

 

[JonC]

I think you have a misunderstanding of the very nature of the Atonement

As I you. To Scripture, brother.

 

[agedman]

wrong! do you think that you know more than Jesus Himself? You says "single requirement...belief", listen to Jesus, "REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel" (Mark 1:15). I make this TWO!

Then you put human effort as what establishes salvation.

That makes humans the "author" of salvation.

Such thinking is opposed to the Scriptures.

There is no salvation in human effort

What was said to the vile, ungodly, jailer?

31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.
​

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

As I you. To Scripture, brother.

You cannot separate the sin from the sinner! It was our SINS that Christ carried in His body on the cross (1 Peter 2:24)

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Then you put human effort as what establishes salvation.

That makes humans the "author" of salvation.

Such thinking is opposed to the Scriptures.

There is no salvation in human effort

What was said to the vile, ungodly, jailer?

31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.
​

this is complete nonsense! I quote you the words of God Incarnate, and you respond by saying that what God says is "opposed to Scriptures"!? Are you for real?

 

[TCassidy]

Faith and Repentance are two sides of the same coin. Repentance is Faith in action. One turns from sin (repentance) to Christ (faith). One turning with two aspects.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Faith and Repentance are two sides of the same coin. Repentance is Faith in action. One turns from sin (repentance) to Christ (faith). One turning with two aspects.

so you admit that the sinner has to DO something? "turn from sin to Christ"!

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree that PST has been the primary view of Reformed Baptists and Calvinistic Baptists, and Presbyterians since the time of the Reformation. But the Church did not begin at the Reformation, and Calvinistic theology does not comprise the majority view of Christians today. Your statement was false, period. The most common view (historically and at present) is Christus Victor. This is, of course, subject to change as centuries roll by (if they do).

The majority viewpoint would be that held by the Church of Rome, but that is the wrong view, and the PST fits the entire biblical view on the Cross of the Suffering Servant of the Lord.
At least you accept that this view is the dominant one held by those who preach and teach the true Gospel!

 

[Yeshua1]

Loaded language, and not what we would expect from someone who wished a serious discussion on this matter. I block people who I think are not capable or willing to engage in serious discussion, and you might not care one bit if I do, but if you post one more post like the above, I will consider you not ready for serious debate and do just that.

God anger against sin, and His divine wrath towards Jesus as the Sin Bearer was NOT a tantrum of an angry God, but was that from a Holy God whose very nature hates sin in all of its various ways, and who must render a judgement upon those who have sinned against Him and His ways!

 

[TCassidy]

so you admit that the sinner has to DO something? "turn from sin to Christ"!

No. A repentant faith is a gift from God. I don't give God a gift, He gives me a gift. "For the gift of God is eternal life." Not "For the gift of Tom is eternal life."

 

[Yeshua1]

I gave up serious discussions with Yesuah1 long ago. He just keeps repeating things without even trying to evidence his view. If you were to ask the question then I suspect you would receive a different answer.

I continue to bring up various scriptures, but you refuse to accept that others such as calvin, and Berkhoff, and Hodgh, and so many others accepted PST as the biblical truth, as you keep on holding to NT wright and his wrong theology on this issue!