What kind of virgin will you be?

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
That certainly sounds confusing. Being adopted into the same family into which you're born?

I don't understand why you don't get this. Being adopted into God's family is being born again!

We become a son or daughter of God when we are saved.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
That certainly sounds confusing. Being adopted into the same family into which you're born?

What is even more confusing would be being born into a family and then, at a later date, being adopted into the same family. This seems to be your view, which makes no sense.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
That certainly sounds confusing. Being adopted into the same family into which you're born?

What is even more confusing would be being born into a family and then, at a later date, being adopted into the same family. This seems to be your view, which makes no sense. </font>[/QUOTE]No, this is the view being stated by Marcia, and I thought you did too: Being adopted into a birth family.

Adoption means being born into one family, then placed into another.

When you're born from above, you're born into the family of God. Why do you need adoption?

You don't. When you are born into a family, adoption is not necessary to place you within that family. The word that is translated as "adoption" is the Greek word "huiothesia". It means son-placing; to put into the position of authority within the family, not merely nativity.

I don't know if the word "adoption" has changed meaning over the years or if it was simply a poor choice of wording, but "adoption" in the sense that we use it today is not in view at all.

 

[Marcia]

Posted by Hope of Glory
When you're born from above, you're born into the family of God. Why do you need adoption?

Because we are not naturally sons and daughters of God! When we believe and are saved, that constitutes adoption. Our natural birth is into the family of Adam; our birth from above is into the family of God. but it's an adoption because we are not natural sons and daughters of God. Only Jesus is the unique Son.

Maybe the word "adopted" is not the best one but that is the one the translators used.

Rom 8.15
For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, " Abba! Father!"
Romans 8:14-16 (in Context)


Galatians 4:5
so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Galatians 4:4-6 (in Context)

Ephesians 1:5
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

This is being said to all believers -- so we are adopted into God's family when we are saved. If this is not true, then the Bible is wrong, and so are my pastor and many other pastors I've heard speak on this.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Maybe the word "adopted" is not the best one but that is the one the translators used.

And the Greek word has absolutely nothing, zero, nada, to do with adoption, as in being placed into a family. Can you not comprehend this one simple statement?

And what exactly do you mean that this applies to all believers? I agree that it's something that all believers should strive for, but not all believers will be put into positions of authority, which is exactly what this word is talking about.

I did your searching for you. According to WorldNet from Princeton, the primary definition of "adoption" is even "n 1: the act of accepting with approval; favorable reception; "its adoption by society"; "the proposal found wide acceptance""

[ April 21, 2006, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: Hope of Glory ]

 

[James_Newman]

I think Paul can straighten this out for us.

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So regardless of what adoption means, it hasn't occured yet. We are waiting for it, as we wait for the redemption of our bodies.

 

[thjplgvp]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
Well, this is being covered in another thread, but I'll ask you a question:

Why would a person who is born into a family need to be adopted?

The Hebrew adoption did not replace one parent with another but simply was a means of transferring an inheritance to another at their maturity. In another word we are not waiting to be adopted (we are already in the body) we are waiting to turn a certain age in order to be placed in a position to have access to our inheritance.

Galatians 4:1-6 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

[ April 22, 2006, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: thjplgvp ]

 

[genesis12]

Wow. We expect GWB to get it right 100% of the time. 24/7/365. One hopes his advisors aren't visiting these forums.