What other Doctrines does KJV Only violate

[AVL1984]

Failure of some KJV believers to put this psalm in it's proper context has given occasion of nay-sayers like logos1560 and others to leverage against a perfect Bible from a perfect God. While KJV believers typically errs when dealing with this Psalm 12, it does not follow that it makes the multi translation believers right, it just makes them err more because they cannot, and have not, ever dealt with it in it's context because they mostly do not know the context. They generally disagree with KJV believers for the wrong reasons.

Ask Logos1560 to exegete the Psalm sometimes. See what he comes up with.

You, AVL1984, tell us what should we learn from this Psalm 12? What does the Psalmist mean when these people are purified seven times in the furnace of earth like silver? The original language words will not help. Understanding the mind of God certainly requires his very words but having his very words is no guarantee that one will grasp the truth of those words. One could speak fluent Hebrew and have a truckload of original manuscripts, 17 NIV translations and a couple KJVs and still not understand what God wants us to understand about this Psalm. He must have the Spirit of God as well as the words of God to teach him and even then he must have the right heart and a love for the word and a submissive heart. He must be willing to change his mind with additional light when he gets it.

Sorry...I'm not a dog that performs on command. The CONTEXT of Ps 12 is about the human element. If the Lords words are already pure, wholesome words, then why would they have to be "purified" 7x? they wouldn't need to be. The Lord has promised to preserve the pure in heart...the Godly man. This isn't the only portion of Scripture that eludes to this.

 

[JD731]

Sorry...I'm not a dog that performs on command. The CONTEXT of Ps 12 is about the human element. If the Lords words are already pure, wholesome words, then why would they have to be "purified" 7x? they wouldn't need to be. The Lord has promised to preserve the pure in heart...the Godly man. This isn't the only portion of Scripture that eludes to this.

So you agree it is not a good passage of reference to insist on multi English Bible translations, right?

The problem, according to the Psalmist, is that at what ever time he is referencing, the godly man ceaseth because he says in V 1;

Help, Lord; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

No more godly man. No more faithful men. At some point this must be true if this is a prophesy, and I know it is. Has that already been or is it still to be true of a future time?

The reason I am asking is because my understanding of this Psalm has matured over the years and I do believe that verses 6-8 are in the same context as verses 1-4, and I do not think it is the scriptures being preserved is the context although I do believe in the preserved scriptures.

 

[AVL1984]

So you agree it is not a good passage of reference to insist on multi English Bible translations, right?

Not at all.

The problem, according to the Psalmist, is that at what ever time he is referencing, the godly man ceaseth because he says in V 1;

Help, Lord; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.

Ever hear of hyperbole? King David was good at using this methodology in his writing.

No more godly man. No more faithful men. At some point this must be true if this is a prophesy, and I know it is. Has that already been or is it still to be true of a future time?

When the prophet was running from Jezebel, he was bemoaning what he perceived to be that he was the only one who was standing for the truth...what did God tell him? He said he had several thousand men who were still prophesying...there will always be a remnant. Also, remember Christ said the "gates of Hell wouldn't overtake the church." Guess again, you're wrong.

The reason I am asking is because my understanding of this Psalm has matured over the years and I do believe that verses 6-8 are in the same context as verses 1-4, and I do not think it is the scriptures being preserved is the context although I do believe in the preserved scriptures.

 

[JD731]

When the prophet was running from Jezebel, he was bemoaning what he perceived to be that he was the only one who was standing for the truth...what did God tell him? He said he had several thousand men who were still prophesying...there will always be a remnant. Also, remember Christ said the "gates of Hell wouldn't overtake the church." Guess again, you're wrong.

?
Okay. I am moving on. Thank all you fellows for the lively debate concerning the KJVonly and what doctrines we violate. I hope now that everyone understands that the answer is "NONE."

 

[Logos1560]

?
Thank all you fellows for the lively debate concerning the KJVonly and what doctrines we violate. I hope now that everyone understands that the answer is "NONE."

Your answer or opinion is incorrect.

 

[AVL1984]

?
Okay. I am moving on. Thank all you fellows for the lively debate concerning the KJVonly and what doctrines we violate. I hope now that everyone understands that the answer is "NONE."

And the other translations don't violate doctrines either...so, don't feel so triumphant. We've been telling you that the KJV and the MV's neither one violate any of the doctrines of the Bible.

 

[robycop3]

That does not change what the words say about how men receive the Holy Ghost, AFTER Jesus is raised again from the dead. Neither the thief on the cross or John the Baptist were saved by receiving the Holy Ghost, who is life, thus being made a member of the NT church. The gospel of Jesus Christ is founded upon the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This following and instructive passage applied to the thief on the cross and John the Baptist and all others during the ministry of Jesus Christ on the earth. Read it here:

Had they not been saved, they wouldn'ta received the Holy Spirit.(Not "ghost" ! He is not the disembodied spirit os a man.)

37 In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)

Please try this verse on for size:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

These men did not die during the dispensation of the Spirit. they were justified during the ministry of Jesus Christ by believing he is the promised Messiah and the Son of God. God made provision for believers who were alive after this to receive the Holy Ghost by commissioning the apostles with the same authority as Jesus himself. We are told this in John 20. This is the reason that apostles must authorize the giving of the Holy Ghost to the converts. This is a transition time and God made baptism a condition for his people Israel. Gentiles were not ministered to during the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ, for obvious reasons.See note A



Here is what men during the days of Jesus must believe and all Judah had this preached to them during these 3.5 years.

Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The church of Jesus Christ has it's own resurrection. The trinitarian signature is on the resurrection like everything else God does. The OT saints were raised after Jesus led captivity captive. This is 1) the firstfruits of the resurrection. Next the main harvest will be raised 2) the gathering and translation of the body of Christ, the church. And finally those saved ones who perish during the tribulation, 3) the gleanings.One resurrection, the first resurrection, in three parts.

Note A -
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

How would that be possible for men to know the heart and motive of another man? Check this.

Acts 8:12 But when they (the Samaritans) believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

WHY?

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

ALERT: WORDS HAVE MEANING.

You men who do not believe words please read these again. This is not inconsistent with how God is dealing with his people Israel before this and after. I have proven it by quoting words.

Check Simon out.
9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

He believed and he was baptized.

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

The reaction of Peter.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

The formula for Israel to receive the Holy Ghost had been given already and while Simon met all the conditions for receiving the Holy Ghost, he lacked one. Repentance. It was the first one.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Phillip, a prophet, did not have this binding and loosing authority that Peter, an apostle, had been given in John 20.

Later, in Acts 19:1-7, the 12 disciples of John will have lacked the condition of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and therefore these justified men under the law were ignorant of the NT blessings. Paul, an apostle fixed that.

No one can be taught the word who refuses to believe the words of God.

You're getting off the subject of this thread, which is about the KJV myth and doctrines. Baptism is the outward show of one's coming to Jesus and obeying Him, as He commanded baptism after salvation. And He did this BEFORE the cross. While baptism does not save, deliberately putting off baptism without a legitimate excuse is a sin.

 

[JD731]

Had they not been saved, they wouldn'ta received the Holy Spirit.(Not "ghost" ! He is not the disembodied spirit os a man.)



You're getting off the subject of this thread, which is about the KJV myth and doctrines. Baptism is the outward show of one's coming to Jesus and obeying Him, as He commanded baptism after salvation. And He did this BEFORE the cross. While baptism does not save, deliberately putting off baptism without a legitimate excuse is a sin.

I do not mean to insult you robycop3, but no one is saved in the OT and you are doctrinally challenged on this fact. God can and did justify sinners in the OT but he could not save them. He counted, imputed, their faith for righteousness in what he revealed to them, but that did not clear them of sin. The wages of sin is death. Jesus said himself that both he and the thief would be in paradise, which is in the center of the earth. Salvation in the scriptures is an "umbrella" word. It can mean different things and often does. To be saved from the penalty of sin, which is the second death in the lake of fire, requires that a man receive the Holy Ghost. This is the Spirit of Christ, God, who indwelt him and gave him the power to live a sinless life in the flesh. The symbol of the life giving Spirit is water and the Spirit and water share the same properties, come from the same place, can cleanse the out side and when ingested gives life. Every living thing must have water to live and in the spiritual one must drink the Spirit in in order to have eternal life. "He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son hath not life," says the scriptures. So the the Spirit of Christ does not just give life, the Spirit of Christ is life. That blood was offered on the mercy seat in heaven before the first person was saved. Jesus Christ then led captivity captive and those who came up were the OT saints with the Spirit of Christ in them. This included the thief who died the same day as Christ on the cross. They now have eternal life. It is a person. It is God. It is the Spirit of Christ and of God.

So, salvation has the trinitarian signature on it like everything that pertains to God.
1) salvation from the penalty of sin - trusting Christ through repentance and faith in his work
2) salvation from the power of sin = sanctification
3) salvation from the presence or the possibility of sin at death or the glorification of the body, at the rapture of the body of Christ.

The trouble with most on these forums is that their teaching is so weak that they cannot define eternal life. This makes them confused about the definition of salvation. The presence of God is eternal life. When Jesus Christ said he would never leave us or forsake us, we now know how the presence of God will always be with us. Give us a glorified body for our soul and the Spirit of God to tabernacle in and we will be just like Jesus Christ, who himself has the Spirit dwelling in his body, and always has except for three days.

If God could have given his Spirit to sinners without the blood applied then Jesus would not have had to die. One must not get this wrong. It is too important. Sin entering into Adam, a trinitarian man, died the day he did an act of sin. The scriptures says that Jesus Christ was the express image of God, which means he was a trinity while here on earth from his conception. He was the Son of God. When we are saved we are in the image of Jesus Christ who is the image of God because we receive God as the eternal resident in our bodies in the person of the Holy Spirit.

This is exciting stuff. He is our teacher and he is the one who has taught me through the words of the KJV. I am glad he did not require I learn Greek or seek out a priest to teach me.

Ponder these things please. I want to help.

 

[Logos1560]

I am glad he did not require I learn Greek or seek out a priest to teach me.

You in effect seek out an exclusive group of Church of England priests in 1611 so that you blindly trust their imperfect textual criticism and translation decisions.

All the Church of England makers of the KJV with the exception of one held official positions in the state Church of England whether as priests or some higher hierarchical positions. The Scriptures do not teach that the Holy Spirit teaches only through the human textual criticism decisions, Bible revision decisions, and translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England priests/critics in 1611. God the Holy Spirit was just as much involved in the making of the pre-1611 English Bibles and in the making of post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV as He was involved in the making of the KJV.

 

[JD731]

You in effect seek out an exclusive group of Church of England priests in 1611 so that you blindly trust their imperfect textual criticism and translation decisions.

All the Church of England makers of the KJV with the exception of one held official positions in the state Church of England whether as priests or some higher hierarchical positions. The Scriptures do not teach that the Holy Spirit teaches only through the human textual criticism decisions, Bible revision decisions, and translation decisions of one exclusive group of Church of England priests/critics in 1611. God the Holy Spirit was just as much involved in the making of the pre-1611 English Bibles and in the making of post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV as He was involved in the making of the KJV.

Opinions, we've all got em. Why with all this additional light is the world getting darker and not lighter and I suppose you are including paraphrases and these brand new ways of translating the thoughts of God rather than the words, called dynamic equivalence? I suppose you think we, who call ourselves Christians, are heading toward perfect union in doctrine and practice and soon we we will all be in perfect accord, except for those pesky KJV only people. Surely you teach that this Holy Spirit you are speaking about has some sort of plan with all these new Bibles to bring us all together, well, at least the English speaking Christians. This seems to be who this Holy Spirit of yours really cares about if historical evidence is considered and the diversified efforts he has employed to get the word to us in such a huge number of different translations into our language is any indication of how he is favoring us. It just puzzles me why, with all these English volumes to make himself known to us, our brightest people have insisted we are careful to pay close attention to all these bibles he has given us and are insisting one must learn the Greek language if one is to "REALLY" know God.

Something is not adding up and you are a king size ecumenist.

 

[AVL1984]

Opinions, we've all got em. Why with all this additional light is the world getting darker and not lighter and I suppose you are including paraphrases and these brand new ways of translating the thoughts of God rather than the words, called dynamic equivalence? I suppose you think we, who call ourselves Christians, are heading toward perfect union in doctrine and practice and soon we we will all be in perfect accord, except for those pesky KJV only people. Surely you teach that this Holy Spirit you are speaking about has some sort of plan with all these new Bibles to bring us all together, well, at least the English speaking Christians. This seems to be who this Holy Spirit of yours really cares about if historical evidence is considered and the diversified efforts he has employed to get the word to us in such a huge number of different translations into our language is any indication of how he is favoring us. It just puzzles me why, with all these English volumes to make himself known to us, our brightest people have insisted we are careful to pay close attention to all these bibles he has given us and are insisting one must learn the Greek language if one is to "REALLY" know God.

Something is not adding up and you are a king size ecumenist.

Sorry, ...The King James also uses dynamic equivalence in a lot of passages. Get off the high horse. The other translations do nothing to detract from the holiness or sovereignty of God, nor do they take away from the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is not one doctrine that we hold dear, and as our final authority that they detract from. Worshipping a translation is indefensible and dishonest, limiting what the Holy Spirit can and will use. Sad, really....sad.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1 pm EDT / 10 am PDT

 

[JD731]

Sorry, ...The King James also uses dynamic equivalence in a lot of passages. Get off the high horse. The other translations do nothing to detract from the holiness or sovereignty of God, nor do they take away from the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is not one doctrine that we hold dear, and as our final authority that they detract from. Worshipping a translation is indefensible and dishonest, limiting what the Holy Spirit can and will use. Sad, really....sad.

See how quickly my words are verified. Almost immediately. Here you come with your own opinion, the only difference between mine and yours is that mine is a high horse opinion, and, I suppose, this makes yours a low horse opinion. I am worshiping my opinion and you are on higher ground on your low horse. It is going to be etched in my memory now whenever I see your handle, "low horse on higher ground, LHOHG."

I did not say that dynamic equivalence was a new approach to translating the scriptures, the producers of the most popular translation in the world today, or that has ever been, made that claim on their web page. I just read it. Now here you come along and refute their claim. You guys are as confused as a termite in a yo/yo.

Who is this Holy Spirit that favors western Christianity so much that he cannot ever resist showering us with more and more translations? He must not like most of the rest of the world nearly as much as he likes us because he has not given most of them even one translation.

My head spins.

 

[Logos1560]

are insisting one must learn the Greek language if one is to "REALLY" know God.

You fail to demonstrate that anyone is insisting on what your strawman misrepresentation alleges.

 

[Logos1560]

My head spins.

Perhaps your head spins because you are advocating a modern, non-scriptural KJV-only theory that is inconsistent and that is dependent upon use of fallacies and use of double standards. Your inconsistent, non-scriptural KJV-only opinions do not add up.

 

[AVL1984]

See how quickly my words are verified. Almost immediately.

Doubtful. You're words aren't verified in the least...Your ignorance, however, is clear.


Here you come with your own opinion,

It's far from my "own opinion," but, rather a well-known fact. Wrong again...no cigar.

the only difference between mine and yours is that mine is a high horse opinion, and, I suppose, this makes yours a low horse opinion. I am worshiping my opinion and you are on higher ground on your low horse. It is going to be etched in my memory now whenever I see your handle, "low horse on higher ground, LHOHG."

Uh...Hey, MODERATORS/ADMINISTRATORS...you're constantly"editing" my posts and others posts as well for, and watch the spelling and correct it on your own notice, please..."UNNECESSARY verbage." Y'all have spelled it "Unecessary" which is INCORRECT. How about this incitors comments...Let's get consistent, please, or, is he on the "payroll?" Seems that's all he's here to do...yet, you correct others for commenting back! UGH!

I did not say that dynamic equivalence was a new approach to translating the scriptures,

But, you've implied it in the accusations against the other translations. Get real.

the producers of the most popular translation in the world today, or that has ever been, made that claim on their web page. I just read it.

There's nothing wrong with dynamic equivalence as long as it's accurate to the purpose/intent of the passage, and doesn't detract in any way.


Now here you come along and refute their claim. You guys are as confused as a termite in a yo/yo.

Far better than being a prevaricator.

Who is this Holy Spirit that favors western Christianity so much that he cannot ever resist showering us with more and more translations? He must not like most of the rest of the world nearly as much as he likes us because he has not given most of them even one translation.

God never promised a "single" translation. Nowhere can you point to a Scripture that says he will do so. Even Jesus Christ quoted from two different versions of the scrolls of his day. UGH! The ignorance abounds in you, doesn't it?

My head spins.

Yep, it does...like the girls head in "The Exorcist."

 

[JD731]

There's nothing wrong with dynamic equivalence as long as it's accurate to the purpose/intent of the passage, and doesn't detract in any way.

Another opinion that is not shared by all.

Far better than being a prevaricator.

Christian charity? My latest opinion is that you are not really interested that I come to understand your arguments because you care when I read rhetoric like this. I am really not angry at you for your position and probably there are days when you are not such a bad guy, but it looks like today is not one of them.

 

[robycop3]

I do not mean to insult you robycop3, but no one is saved in the OT and you are doctrinally challenged on this fact. God can and did justify sinners in the OT but he could not save them. He counted, imputed, their faith for righteousness in what he revealed to them, but that did not clear them of sin. The wages of sin is death. Jesus said himself that both he and the thief would be in paradise, which is in the center of the earth. Salvation in the scriptures is an "umbrella" word. It can mean different things and often does. To be saved from the penalty of sin, which is the second death in the lake of fire, requires that a man receive the Holy Ghost. This is the Spirit of Christ, God, who indwelt him and gave him the power to live a sinless life in the flesh. The symbol of the life giving Spirit is water and the Spirit and water share the same properties, come from the same place, can cleanse the out side and when ingested gives life. Every living thing must have water to live and in the spiritual one must drink the Spirit in in order to have eternal life. "He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son hath not life," says the scriptures. So the the Spirit of Christ does not just give life, the Spirit of Christ is life. That blood was offered on the mercy seat in heaven before the first person was saved. Jesus Christ then led captivity captive and those who came up were the OT saints with the Spirit of Christ in them. This included the thief who died the same day as Christ on the cross. They now have eternal life. It is a person. It is God. It is the Spirit of Christ and of God.

So, salvation has the trinitarian signature on it like everything that pertains to God.
1) salvation from the penalty of sin - trusting Christ through repentance and faith in his work
2) salvation from the power of sin = sanctification
3) salvation from the presence or the possibility of sin at death or the glorification of the body, at the rapture of the body of Christ.

The trouble with most on these forums is that their teaching is so weak that they cannot define eternal life. This makes them confused about the definition of salvation. The presence of God is eternal life. When Jesus Christ said he would never leave us or forsake us, we now know how the presence of God will always be with us. Give us a glorified body for our soul and the Spirit of God to tabernacle in and we will be just like Jesus Christ, who himself has the Spirit dwelling in his body, and always has except for three days.

If God could have given his Spirit to sinners without the blood applied then Jesus would not have had to die. One must not get this wrong. It is too important. Sin entering into Adam, a trinitarian man, died the day he did an act of sin. The scriptures says that Jesus Christ was the express image of God, which means he was a trinity while here on earth from his conception. He was the Son of God. When we are saved we are in the image of Jesus Christ who is the image of God because we receive God as the eternal resident in our bodies in the person of the Holy Spirit.

This is exciting stuff. He is our teacher and he is the one who has taught me through the words of the KJV. I am glad he did not require I learn Greek or seek out a priest to teach me.

Ponder these things please. I want to help.

A moderator will likely call you down for not staying with the topic of this thread, but I'll answer your hooey anyway, lest another reader be deceived.

First, the only thing at the center of the earth is highly-compressed molten iron. Paradise could be anywhere in the spirit world. It's an area of hades, the temporary abode of the souls of the righteous.

Next, the souls of the righteous OT dead are in paradise, as well as those of the NT righteous dead. There's but one paradise. All will be brought to heaven when Jesus returns. They will all be in the same place again.

And if one died righteous before Jesus came, he/she is just-as-saved as are those saved under the New Covenant. Remember, while Jesus was in paradise, He preached to the souls there, introducing Himself to Dave, Abe, Moses, etc.

And God didn't indwell Jesus; Jesus IS God, along with His Father & the Holy Spirit. (NOT "GHOST" !) One Godhead, three Pesonages. I don't understand the nature of this, of course, but I remember, "WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE." The story of Jesus' baptism proves Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are separate Personages.

I suggest you get back on topic, & read a newer, better Bible version, as you evidently don't understand your KJV too well.

 

[JD731]

A moderator will likely call you down for not staying with the topic of this thread, but I'll answer your hooey anyway, lest another reader be deceived.

Huh?

First, the only thing at the center of the earth is highly-compressed molten iron. Paradise could be anywhere in the spirit world. It's an area of hades, the temporary abode of the souls of the righteous.

Next, the souls of the righteous OT dead are in paradise, as well as those of the NT righteous dead. There's but one paradise. All will be brought to heaven when Jesus returns. They will all be in the same place again.

And if one died righteous before Jesus came, he/she is just-as-saved as are those saved under the New Covenant. Remember, while Jesus was in paradise, He preached to the souls there, introducing Himself to Dave, Abe, Moses, etc.

And God didn't indwell Jesus; Jesus IS God, along with His Father & the Holy Spirit. (NOT "GHOST" !) One Godhead, three Pesonages. I don't understand the nature of this, of course, but I remember, "WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE." The story of Jesus' baptism proves Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are separate Personages.

I suggest you get back on topic, & read a newer, better Bible version, as you evidently don't understand your KJV too well.

It is worse than I thought.

Just one KJV correction for you and an opportunity to believe the words.

Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things)

In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established.

Heart, equals center or middle, according to strong's.

I don't get people not believing the words they read. Maybe these new translations have different information than a KJV, and if so, this doctrine is definitely affected.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

And on that note this thread is closed,