What percent of Baptists are saved?

[dianetavegia]

Tuor, I can't speak for Baptists as people but I have never heard of a Baptist denomination, a true denomination, that does not require baptism for church membership. I do NOT believe it's a requirement for salvation and neither does the Baptist denomination!

I could start a church and call myself Diane's Conservative Georgia Republican pro-life Baptists but if I don't follow the Baptists beliefs, I'm not a Baptist!

I've asked on the Baptist pages if anyone knows of any Baptist denomination that doesn't require baptism. So far, none!

Diane

 

[Eladar]

DHK,

There are only saved members in the church, even though at times, it may be that only God knows who they truly are.

It seems to me that according to your belief all one needs to do in order to find the truly saved at your church is look at the church directory.

Diane,

I could start a church and call myself Diane's Conservative Georgia Republican pro-life Baptists but if I don't follow the Baptists beliefs, I'm not a Baptist!

I thought that one of the Baptist distinctivenesses is Soul Liberty. I thought another was the autonomy of the local congregation.

How can you demand adherence to a universal doctrine and uphold the right of the local congregation to self interpretation of scripture at the same time?

I've asked on the Baptist pages if anyone knows of any Baptist denomination that doesn't require baptism. So far, none!

This is a conservative site. I believe one would be more likely to find what I'm talking about on a liberal site.

Besides, that was not the question I asked. I asked if all Baptists recognized the document you posted.

 

[dianetavegia]

Tuor said: tI don't believe every Baptist church requires baptism in order to be a member. If only one Bapstist church does not, then your statement is faulty.

I was addressing this remark, Tuor.

As to the next question.... There is NO way I could guess what every Baptist person believes. Diane

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Tuor:
DHK,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />There are only saved members in the church, even though at times, it may be that only God knows who they truly are.

It seems to me that according to your belief all one needs to do in order to find the truly saved at your church is look at the church directory.

</font>[/QUOTE]Not even John could do that:

1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
--But the unsaved became apparent sooner or later.

However:
(2 Tim 2:19 KJV) Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
DHK

 

[DHK]

The shepherd only feeds the sheep.
A wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf.

 

[Eladar]

DHK,

You said:

For example, 100% of the members in my church are saved because they are all baptized by immersion after they were saved.

Then you said:

Not even John could do that:

1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
--But the unsaved became apparent sooner or later.

Don't you see the inconsistancy?

Diane,

As to the next question.... There is NO way I could guess what every Baptist person believes. Diane

I am not talking about individual people. I'm talking about entire congregations. I've been around here long enough to read about the turmoil in Baptist politics. It seems to me that some Baptist congregations have been expelled from conferences or something like that because they had problems with the larger Baptist body. I was wondering if there are entire groups of Baptists who do not fall in line with mainstream Baptist beliefs.

I've run into certain Baptists who believe that local autonomy is one of the core beliefs for Baptists.

 

[donnA]

My Baptist church requires baptism prior to membership, either baptized by our church or anothre Baptist church. I do not know any Baptist church that allows membership without baptism, nor do I know a baptist who has baptist church memebrship and has not been baptized. Allowing unbaptized memebrship is not a true Baptist church, as beleivers baptism is just one of the things that set Baptists apart from other, that is not to say other denoms do not beleive in baptising believer.

 

[dianetavegia]

I am not talking about individual people. I'm talking about entire congregations. I've been around here long enough to read about the turmoil in Baptist politics. It seems to me that some Baptist congregations have been expelled from conferences or something like that because they had problems with the larger Baptist body. I was wondering if there are entire groups of Baptists who do not fall in line with mainstream Baptist beliefs.

Ouch.... Want my PERSONAL opinion or documentation? Alliance of Baptists, CBF, etc. don't fit with what I feel a Baptist is, but then my opinon won't even get you a bus ticket!

I really cannot answer. I'd have to study all those different groups that have left and see why they left and again, honestly, they went out from us .... etc. I would suggest you contact members from each of the Baptist denominations and ask them to respond.

Diane

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Tuor:
DHK,

You said: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />For example, 100% of the members in my church are saved because they are all baptized by immersion after they were saved.

Then you said:

Not even John could do that:

1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
--But the unsaved became apparent sooner or later.

Don't you see the inconsistancy?
</font>[/QUOTE]If John was addressing a church he would be saying that all of his "members" were saved, but he knew that their were wolves among the sheep. He knew that they would "be made manifest that they were not all of us." Wolves remain wolves, even if they look like sheep. Their disguises were so good that John couldn't tell the difference at that time. But God knows them that are his, and that is what counts. A wolf cannot claim to be a sheep even if he looks like one. Sheep are sheep. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them."
100% of the sheep are still sheep even if there are some wolves among them. The sheep are still sheep.
DHK

 

[Eladar]

I believe I found a Baptist Church that does not require Baptism for membership. This is what its website says

One may formally join the congregation and gain the right to vote at Judson by receiving baptism, by making a statement to the congregation, by transferring from another church or by requesting and receiving the status of "voting non-member." The voting non-member category was created to accommodate those whose backgrounds might prevent them from joining a Christian church or whose employment requires them to maintain membership in a church that is affiliated with a denomination other than ABC or UCC.

Here is the Link: Judson Church is affiliated with the American Baptist Churches and the United Church of Christ

DHK,

100% of the sheep are still sheep even if there are some wolves among them. The sheep are still sheep.

Yes, but you are saying that every member of your denomination is one of God's sheep. That is quite a claim.

 

[dianetavegia]

Lesbians and gays mix easily with straight people; younger with older; urban with suburban. What we have in common is a tendency to ask good questions and to want to be part of the ongoing conversation about how this church can and should respond to urgent new societal challenges.

Most participants want this church to take risks and to stay out front on issues of conscience. They expect leaders and staff to ask fundamental questions rather than automatically go along with perceived wisdom, and they would like the church itself to serve as an incubator for new things.

Quoted from that 'church' web site.

That's odd that the church is Church of Christ, which says you MUST be baptized to BE SAVED and a Baptist church. Sounds like they are not sure which way to go!

That's a private church but not a Baptist denomination.

Diane

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Tuor:
DHK, </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> 100% of the sheep are still sheep even if there are some wolves among them. The sheep are still sheep.

Yes, but you are saying that every member of your denomination is one of God's sheep. That is quite a claim. </font>[/QUOTE]You are still not getting it. If "so-called member" be not saved, then he is not a member by default. Only saved baptized people are members of Baptized churches. If you are unsaved you are not a member, no matter what you think.
DHK

 

[Eladar]

What does affiliated mean? Doesn't that mean that they a member of the ABC?

You are still not getting it. If "so-called member" be not saved, then he is not a member by default. Only saved baptized people are members of Baptized churches. If you are unsaved you are not a member, no matter what you think.
DHK

I see, you're playing word games. The question this thread is asking is what percent of members of Baptist churches are 'really' remembers?

 

[dianetavegia]

Tuor, they are not actually a part of either membership if you ask me. They actually say that they have those names so those who need to be affiliated with either ABC or C of C because of their employement, can get by. It's a cover. No real beliefs! Look at their website closely. Look for statement of faith or what we believe and it's all a free for all! Farce religion.

Diane

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Tuor:
I see, you're playing word games. The question this thread is asking is what percent of members of Baptist churches are 'really' remembers?

No. Here is what Diane quoted for you.

Article VII, Baptist Faith and Message:

"Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper."

I agree with that.
By that definition, 100% of all our members are saved.
DHK

 

[Eladar]

So what percent are members, but aren't really members?

Diane,

Tuor, they are not actually a part of either membership if you ask me.

Apparently they are members. You may not recognize the fact that they are, but apparently the ABC has accepted their membership. Either their claim of affiliation is false or they are ABC.

 

[Eladar]

Cool! I just found out by way of an ABC site that Judson Memorial Church is indeed officially ABC.

Here is the site:

http://www.abcis.org/public/ChurchSearch.asp

Put in New York
New York
zip 10012

You will find that Judson Memorial Church will be the result of that search.

I'm afraid they are officially 'Baptist'.

 

[Tazman]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
Article VII, Baptist Faith and Message:

"Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper."

Diane, I think you'rE being rude. You have not answered my questions, but continue to make comment surrounding it. Where do you find the above statement in the BIBLE????

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Based on my experience as a Baptist, I think it's pretty naive to think that everyone who makes a profession of faith and is baptized is truly "saved". Sure, the ideal is that the true "membership" of the local baptist church is composed only of "baptized believers", but how does one KNOW who the genuine believers are? You can't, at least not with absolute certainty. Only God knows, but we can recognize (in a less than absolute sense) those who are truly following Christ--1 John gives some important criteria, for example. The problem in the baptist church is the tendancy to automatically equate every "profession of faith" as a genuine conversion when such may not be the case. Therefore, no doubt many are baptized who have not "counted the cost" but who can say all the right things in order to get their "fire insurance". Thus, the ideal of only baptized BELEIVERS being members does not seem to match the reality of the situation in baptist churches. So I guess Tuor's question is how wide (roughly, of course) is the discrepancy between the real and the ideal in baptist churches? My answer, is that I don't know, but I believe such a discrepancy exists.

 

[trying2understand]

Wow, this has really gotten funny!

100% percent of baptists are saved because you have to be saved to be a baptist?