What say you

[HankD]

If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?

No, I would not be comfortable and I would not want to live in such a country.

Because then the law would become something other than the Law of the LORD having been mutilated.

So also sayeth the Psalmist.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.​

To take anything away from it would make it less than perfect.

That is my answer.

HankD

 

[Don]

No, I would not be comfortable and I would not want to live in such a country.

Because then the law would become something other than the Law of the LORD having been mutilated.

So also sayeth the Psalmist.

Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.​

To take anything away from it would make it less than perfect.

That is my answer.

HankD

To which I fully agree (see post #118, page 12).

 

[Aaron]

Did I say that? If you will go back and read what I posted earlier in this thread, I said that I thought our laws were already based on the 10 commandments. But you have always disagreed with me on everything, so I guess you had to maintain your quota.

In case you don't know, there are 613 OT laws. Which ones do you want our government to put into law? All of them?

Law is. No man makes law. It is not wrong to kill because some man says so. It is wrong because it is, and that is what law is. In fact, the whole purpose of government is to establish justice. So who gets to say what is just. God or man?

 

[revmwc]

No I am talking about the laws that the bible gives that deal with governmental laws, rulling the people in a nation so that there is peace and justice, but not the parts that deal with religious worship or religious elements.

This deals with the Jews living in peace and yet it is a command on the sabbath,
Leviticus 25:3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
5 That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.
6 And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee.
7 And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.
8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.
11 A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
12 For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.
13 In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession.
14 And if thou sell ought unto thy neighbour, or buyest ought of thy neighbour's hand, ye shall not oppress one another:
15 According to the number of years after the jubile thou shalt buy of thy neighbour, and according unto the number of years of the fruits he shall sell unto thee:
16 According to the multitude of years thou shalt increase the price thereof, and according to the fewness of years thou shalt diminish the price of it: for according to the number of the years of the fruits doth he sell unto thee.
17 Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.
18 Wherefore ye shall do my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; and ye shall dwell in the land in safety.
19 And the land shall yield her fruit, and ye shall eat your fill, and dwell therein in safety.
20 And if ye shall say, What shall we eat the seventh year? behold, we shall not sow, nor gather in our increase:
21 Then I will command my blessing upon you in the sixth year, and it shall bring forth fruit for three years.
22 And ye shall sow the eighth year, and eat yet of old fruit until the ninth year; until her fruits come in ye shall eat of the old store.
23 The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
24 And in all the land of your possession ye shall grant a redemption for the land.

To start with God said remember the sabbath and keep it Holy, then He tells Moses that after they enter the land they are by His law to keep the sabbath, then He lays it out.
Six years they were to work and the seventh was a year of Sabbath rest, this is a law by God governing the land. First we must mark when the Jews entered the land. Then we must find when the 7 years were past then we set up our Sabbaths of rest. Next we must on the 50th year of Jubile "return every man unto his possession" so that we return the possessions to the original owner. Define please who that would be? Notice verse 19 if the Jews and in your OP we follow this law then God said "and dwell therein in safety". So please define these parameters for the Law of the Sabbath governing living in the land in peace.

 

[Robert Snow]

No I cannot answer for you as your answer shows your heart.

Unfortunately, so does yours.

 

[freeatlast]

This deals with the Jews living in peace and yet it is a command on the sabbath,
Leviticus 25:3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
5 That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.
6 And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee.
7 And for thy cattle, and for the beast that are in thy land, shall all the increase thereof be meat.
8 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.
11 A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
12 For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field.
13 In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession.
14 And if thou sell ought unto thy neighbour, or buyest ought of thy neighbour's hand, ye shall not oppress one another:
15 According to the number of years after the jubile thou shalt buy of thy neighbour, and according unto the number of years of the fruits he shall sell unto thee:
16 According to the multitude of years thou shalt increase the price thereof, and according to the fewness of years thou shalt diminish the price of it: for according to the number of the years of the fruits doth he sell unto thee.
17 Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.
18 Wherefore ye shall do my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; and ye shall dwell in the land in safety.
19 And the land shall yield her fruit, and ye shall eat your fill, and dwell therein in safety.
20 And if ye shall say, What shall we eat the seventh year? behold, we shall not sow, nor gather in our increase:
21 Then I will command my blessing upon you in the sixth year, and it shall bring forth fruit for three years.
22 And ye shall sow the eighth year, and eat yet of old fruit until the ninth year; until her fruits come in ye shall eat of the old store.
23 The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine, for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
24 And in all the land of your possession ye shall grant a redemption for the land.

To start with God said remember the sabbath and keep it Holy, then He tells Moses that after they enter the land they are by His law to keep the sabbath, then He lays it out.
Six years they were to work and the seventh was a year of Sabbath rest, this is a law by God governing the land. First we must mark when the Jews entered the land. Then we must find when the 7 years were past then we set up our Sabbaths of rest. Next we must on the 50th year of Jubile "return every man unto his possession" so that we return the possessions to the original owner. Define please who that would be? Notice verse 19 if the Jews and in your OP we follow this law then God said "and dwell therein in safety". So please define these parameters for the Law of the Sabbath governing living in the land in peace.

Read the op

 

[DHK]

I am not talking about the religious aspect of the law. That was made clear in the OP. I am talking about the judicial side of the law.

It is not a matter of liking or disliking is it?
It is a matter of being in the will of God. Where does God want you to serve? There are countries like that that exist today. And they desperately need the gospel.
The Bible says concerning them:

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! (Romans 10:14-15)

How shall they hear without a preacher;
How shall they preach except they be sent?

If God sends you to such a needy nation, the question is, "Will you go?"
Not, "would you like to go?"
There is a big difference.

 

[freeatlast]

It is not a matter of liking or disliking is it?
It is a matter of being in the will of God. Where does God want you to serve? There are countries like that that exist today. And they desperately need the gospel.
The Bible says concerning them:

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! (Romans 10:14-15)

How shall they hear without a preacher;
How shall they preach except they be sent?

If God sends you to such a needy nation, the question is, "Will you go?"
Not, "would you like to go?"
There is a big difference.

Read the OP.

 

[DHK]

Read the OP.

I did. My post remains the same:

If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?

Many Islamic nations believe they are keeping the law, especially those like Saudia Arabia who live under Sharia law. You claim to know and love the Lord. Would you be comfortable, even desire to live in a country that holds to these or similar laws like many of the Islamic nations do?

 

[revmwc]

Read the op

I did and the item I posted is part of what you are asking about. This is part of the civil-judicial laws and the reason the Jews went into captivity in Babylon.

2 Chronicles 36: 21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years. (70 years in Captivity)

The O.P. is whether we would live in a land under Gods Law, this was one of God's law and His punishment for not observing the Sabbath weeks. This ties into the OP. Sorry if you feel this is religious, but God commanded them to rest the land every seventh year and the year of Jubile (50th) as part of His civil law and tied to the commandment, they worked hand in hand.
Here is your OP
"If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?"

This was judicial law that governed the land and it's rest. The judgement came with captivity and that happend to them for not observing this judicial law. God judged and they received punishment. Again make the OP clearer if you think this not part of what you are talking about, God said this had to be observed for them to live in peace and to not observe all the aspects of the Sabbath brought his judgement. Judicially God judged them as lawless for not observing the resting of the land, this was not just a religious law given by God but a judicial law with punishment tied to it.
Leviticus 25:3 -24 is part of the Judicial law set up by God for the Jewish people. My post #144 gives the scripture, please show where you see this as part of that which you wish to leave out of God's commands for living in the as a part of "OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects)" because this has nothing to do with those aspects. It was the law God placed on them with specific punishment.

Notice what God told them here in Leviticus 25:18 Wherefore ye shall do my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; and ye shall dwell in the land in safety.
The Statutes are tied to dwelling in safety for the Jewish nation. This is part of all the laws it was a judicial statute to be kept or judgement would take place.

 

[freeatlast]

I did and the item I posted is part of what you are asking about. This is part of the civil-judicial laws and the reason the Jews went into captivity in Babylon.

2 Chronicles 36: 21 To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years. (70 years in Captivity)

The O.P. is whether we would live in a land under Gods Law, this was one of God's law and His punishment for not observing the Sabbath weeks. This ties into the OP. Sorry if you feel this is religious, but God commanded them to rest the land every seventh year and the year of Jubile (50th) as part of His civil law and tied to the commandment, they worked hand in hand.
Here is your OP
"If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?"

This was judicial law that governed the land and it's rest. The judgement came with captivity and that happend to them for not observing this judicial law. God judged and they received punishment. Again make the OP clearer if you think this not part of what you are talking about, God said this had to be observed for them to live in peace and to not observe all the aspects of the Sabbath brought his judgement. Judicially God judged them as lawless for not observing the resting of the land, this was not just a religious law given by God but a judicial law with punishment tied to it.
Leviticus 25:3 -24 is part of the Judicial law set up by God for the Jewish people. My post #144 gives the scripture, please show where you see this as part of that which you wish to leave out of God's commands for living in the as a part of "OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects)" because this has nothing to do with those aspects. It was the law God placed on them with specific punishment.

Notice what God told them here in Leviticus 25:18 Wherefore ye shall do my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; and ye shall dwell in the land in safety.
The Statutes are tied to dwelling in safety for the Jewish nation. This is part of all the laws it was a judicial statute to be kept or judgement would take place.

No that was not what I asked. Read the OP

 

[revmwc]

No that was not what I asked. Read the OP

You continue to say read looks like most of have are not comprehending what you are saying, so please clarify. The Sabbath was set as a judicial law for the Jews to follow as a civil law. Now you say that doesn't apply and won't explain how or what you mean by the OP continuing to say read the OP doesn't clarify your position as you see how many have failed to see your point with the OP. Please clarify your point in the OP!

 

[freeatlast]

You continue to say read looks like most of have are not comprehending what you are saying, so please clarify. The Sabbath was set as a judicial law for the Jews to follow as a civil law. Now you say that doesn't apply and won't explain how or what you mean by the OP continuing to say read the OP doesn't clarify your position as you see how many have failed to see your point with the OP. Please clarify your point in the OP!

Read the OP.

 

[revmwc]

Read the OP.

Please clarify the OP I have read it several times and evidently the point you are trying to make has slipped by several of us so please CLARIFY the OP.

Thanks,

 

[freeatlast]

Please clarify the OP I have read it several times and evidently the point you are trying to make has slipped by several of us so please CLARIFY the OP.

Thanks,

I have over and over and many decide it does not mean what it asks so they respond with answers not related to the question. Just read the Op and answer it just like it asks.

 

[Don]

(at this point, the child on the playground usually stamps his feet in the sandbox and cries out that no one's doing it right)


Your Opening Post cannot be answered to your satisfaction. God's laws are just and good; then man comes along and messes them up. I use Iraq and Afghanistan as examples. I use our current world as an example.

You can re-institute Old Testament judicial laws, and within a generation you will have "amendments" to those laws, based on differing interpretation, situational ethics, etc., etc.

Do not try to re-implement a law that man was unable to comply with to begin with. Accept it for what it was: the schoolmaster to teach us that we need something more, that we need Christ.

 

[revmwc]

I have over and over and many decide it does not mean what it asks so they respond with answers not related to the question. Just read the Op and answer it just like it asks.

I posted a law of the Jews that is not "If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?"
from cermony, not a feast and not a ritual but a command of God for them to follow or not live in peace and you say it isn't what you mean. The Sabbath weeks, the year of Jubile are not, an OT ceremony, nor a feast and not a ritual, but are a command from God for a judicial law. Yet you say that is not what you mean so please clarify what laws you refer too. The 10 commandments? They had consequences for not following them but they were just a part of the Law for the Jews to follow and were expanded on as they entered the land with the consequnces for violation. They had the laws of taxation given from God are you meaning those such as the 10% tax called a tithe today that was for the temple upkeep. Are those what you are refereing to as "If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?" ? Many have missed your point and your only answer is read the OP to which I again ask you if you will clarify it's meaning.

 

[freeatlast]

(at this point, the child on the playground usually stamps his feet in the sandbox and cries out that no one's doing it right)


Your Opening Post cannot be answered to your satisfaction. God's laws are just and good; then man comes along and messes them up. I use Iraq and Afghanistan as examples. I use our current world as an example.

You can re-institute Old Testament judicial laws, and within a generation you will have "amendments" to those laws, based on differing interpretation, situational ethics, etc., etc.

Do not try to re-implement a law that man was unable to comply with to begin with. Accept it for what it was: the schoolmaster to teach us that we need something more, that we need Christ.

I never asked any of those things. Read the OP.

 

[freeatlast]

I posted a law of the Jews that is not "If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?"
from cermony, not a feast and not a ritual but a command of God for them to follow or not live in peace and you say it isn't what you mean. The Sabbath weeks, the year of Jubile are not, an OT ceremony, nor a feast and not a ritual, but are a command from God for a judicial law. Yet you say that is not what you mean so please clarify what laws you refer too. The 10 commandments? They had consequences for not following them but they were just a part of the Law for the Jews to follow and were expanded on as they entered the land with the consequnces for violation. They had the laws of taxation given from God are you meaning those such as the 10% tax called a tithe today that was for the temple upkeep. Are those what you are refereing to as "If all the OT ceremonies, feasts, and rituals (religious aspects) were left out how many here who claim to know and love the Lord would be comfortable, even desire, to live in a country that holds to the rest of OT laws (the judicial laws) of God in regards to lawlessness?" ? Many have missed your point and your only answer is read the OP to which I again ask you if you will clarify it's meaning.

Read the OP.

 

[Don]

I never asked any of those things. Read the OP.

I reiterate: Your opening post cannot be answered to your satisfaction.