What Side Of The Fence Are You?

[kyredneck]

Again, why is one forced to vote in a flawed poll? Your synergism and monergism defintions are WAY off, so any vote is flawed.

Given only two options, how would you have worded it?

 

[Dr. Walter]

The two above statements are incorrect if taken as definitions. While "synergism" & "monergism" are not exclusively theological terms, and often there are not precisely agreed upon meanings for these two words in theological discussions, kyredneck's statement following "synergism" is particularly incomplete and misleading in the context of the historical Arminian/Calvinist debate. Also, one must understand that "regeneration" is NOT the same thing as Justification (or even Salvation in total).

Classical Arminianism affirms the Total Depravity (or Complete Inability) of the fallen human race. Arminians & Weslyans believe that God has given every person 'Prevenient Grace' (without their individual consent btw) because all humans are naturally unable to make any effort towards salvation on their own. Calvinists call this action of God to resurrect the spiritually dead sinner "Regeneration". For Arminians, this 'preceding grace' puts the person in a somewhat neutral spiritual position to now make a free will choice (by faith which is also a necessary gift) to cooperate or resist God's saving grace through Christ (aka Justification). Calvinists would say that while God has already made that choice sure, He gives the person the gift of faith and then the person partcipates by using that faith for belief unto salvation. This internal work done by God is concurrent with external preaching/witness done by humans through God's Word (so technically, it is not completely independent).

Semi-Pelagianism (which is synergistic) is the position that holds that the humans are not so affected by Original Sin that the beginning of faith can still yet come as an act of human free will. This view (only slightly less disgusting than the Satanic lies of Pelagius) was rightly condemned in 529 by the Second Council of Orange.

Again, true Arminians (not Finney-types) do not believe that humans in their natural sinful state are able to make a decision for God without prior involuntary supernatural assistance. Arminians & Calvinists would both be monergistic in Regeneration.

Well said my friend

 

[kyredneck]

Well said my friend

How would you have worded it? (as concisely as possible)

 

[Dr. Walter]

How would you have worded it? (as concisely as possible)

I have no problem with the choice of words as I understand the intent. My response to Franklinmonroe was more in regard to his concise summary of the differences. I think he did a good job summarizing the differences.

 

[webdog]

Given only two options, how would you have worded it?

Why only two options?

 

[kyredneck]

Why only two options?

I halfway expected you would say that. I'll rephrase. Word the poll the way you think it should have been that includes all views.

 

[webdog]

I halfway expected you would say that. I'll rephrase. Word the poll the way you think it should have been that includes all views.

That would depend on what doctrine you are talking about. Regeneration? Justification? It is just worded "what doctrine do you believe". Salvation is monergistic, as we do not earn it nor work together with God for it and everything needed has been completed by God for it...yet He clearly requires faith from us for it, which is synergistic. In the big picture it is clearly a combination of both. You could have added a "both" or "other" answer to your poll and I would have voted for that, or been more specific on the topics and had numerous polls.

 

[sag38]

Yes, I am sure there are many on here, like me, who would have voted for "both." As it stands I can't vote because I see both as being taught in God's word. Call it a contradiction all you want but I am perfectly comfortable with the contradiction. As I see it, I didn't create the contradiction, God did. If He's OK with it then I'm OK with it too. My train travels on two rails rather than the monorail of Calvinism.

 

[convicted1]

What side of the fence are you on?

I vote for "synergism".

Here is a text I found in Proverbs 1:
22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

24Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

27When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:


In verse 24, the LORD states He called and they would not answer. In verse 27, God shows them what will happen because of them not listening to them. When God "calls", it's up to us to answer.


i am I ams!!

Willis

 

[convicted1]

What side of the fence are you on?

Here's another scripture that I think goes along with synergism.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

i am I ams!!

Willis

ps Here's a nutter one

Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The Spirit and the bride say "Come", so we have to "come" to take the water of life freely.