What Sins Are Christians Capable Of?

[J. Jump]

That is interesting that you would make this statement - What are you going to confess, if your sins have already been forgiven. He died "once" for our sins, and if so, that took care of every sin we did, have, and will do. - but then bring up I John 1:9 at the end of your post.

I John 1:9 teaches in direct opposition to your statement. I John is in the present tense meaning today if I confess my sins He is faithful to forgive, and tomorrow if I confess my sins then He is faithful to forgive and then on Saturday if I confess my sins . . . and the direct opposite of that would be true as well. If I don't confess my sins then He is not obligated to forgive me sins and won't.

The church is teaching a false idea that Christians do not have to confess their sins because they were all forgiven at the cross. All sins are forgiven (past) and can be (forgiven present and future) because of the one-time death and shed blood of Jesus Christ. However present and future sins, must be dealt with on a continual basis.

If they are not that doesn't mean we lose our salvation, that just means we lose fellowship with God, put our inheritance in jeopardy and other things, but salavation is never again an issue after one has believed.

 

[DHK]

DHK,

That seems to run contrary to what Paul says in Scripture:

Romans 7:20

Joseph Botwinick

Here is Paul's conclusion:
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

With the mind, I serve the law of God. Is your mind 100% of the time, every day, every moment transfixed on Christ and his law. Is He always at the very center of your life. Are your thoughts full controlled by him, and centered around him?
The answer is no. No man's is. No man is perfect.

We give into the flesh. And with the flesh we serve the law of sin. We sin willfully. There is victory in Christ. That victory comes through the mind. But the mind is not so strong that it can focus 100% of the time on Christ.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Do you cast down every imagination, every proud thought or any thought that exalts itself against God's knowledge, and do you bring all of your thoughts, each and every one of them, into captivity, that is the captivity and obedience of Jesus Christ?

Joseph I know you don't do this because I have seen many of your posts where you have expressed your thoughts. And those thoughts have not been brought into line, to the obedience of Christ, rather they have given way to the flesh. That is wilful sin.
Have you ever had to have your posts edited?
DHK

 

[Hope of Glory]

What's the difference between those 2?

One is doing what's right in your own eyes, the other is acknowledging that it is sin.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Do you cast down every imagination, every proud thought or any thought that exalts itself against God's knowledge, and do you bring all of your thoughts, each and every one of them, into captivity, that is the captivity and obedience of Jesus Christ?

Joseph I know you don't do this because I have seen many of your posts where you have expressed your thoughts. And those thoughts have not been brought into line, to the obedience of Christ, rather they have given way to the flesh. That is wilful sin.
Have you ever had to have your posts edited?
DHK

DHK,

You speak truth here. I am in no way perfect, for if I were, I would not be here typing this message to you write now. I would be in heaven. Neither do I, however, spend every waking minute of my day seeking to sin. I have had my posts edited (indeed, I have edited my posts) many times. I believe I am struggling with sin just as Paul did. This is one of the signs that we are Christians that we actually struggle with sin, since it is in conflict with the Spirit of God which lives in us. I believe it is part of Sanctification that we, through the Spirit, mortify the flesh, or our sin nature. There is a spiritual war occuring in every Christian. I don't believe a Christian goes through life wanting to sin, as Paul said, but instead, struggles with the sin nature that is still present in them. Does this make sense to you?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[canadyjd]

In John 1:12-13, it is talking about common salvation: "But as many as received [aorist] him, to them gave he power to become the sons [teknon, mature children] of God, . . .” This is talking about mature children. The KJV has the word sons, and that is a different Greek word entirely. This has to do with mature children. What he is saying here is this, If you receive or believe on the Lord Jesus as your personal savior, God has given you the authority and tools and the ability to mature.

But, they're saved, because they made that mental assent; they believed on the Lord Jesus as their savior.

First, I do not base my understanding of salvation on a single verse of text. Second, you have misstated the meaning of John 1:12-13, which clearly speaks of being "born" as children of God, not "maturing" as children of God. That birth is by the will of God; a theme repeated in John 3:

Again, you are declaring someone to be saved who, according to the thread senerio, is denying Jesus Christ. You are doing that based on a heresy that has long been refuted. The heresy of "mental assent' or Sandemanism. This is clearly refuted by scripture.

I John: 2:22-23 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? this is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father and the Son."

This verse speaks directly to that. How can you possibly go against scripture and declare him saved? You are declaring "anti-christ" saved.

I John: 3:7 "Little Children, let no one deceive you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; (v.9) No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (v.l0) By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious; anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the who who does not love his brother."

Again, we see that Holy Spirit indwells us. When we sin, God disciplines us. That is why we will not "practice sin", which means to continue sinning as a regular pattern of life. We, as the children of God, are distinguished from the children of the devil by how we live our lives; not by a one-time "event" where we mouthed a few words. The passage is clear, if you will accept it.

Your doctrine contradicts scripture. Please have the integrity to change what you believe to conform to what God has revealed to us.

peace to youraise:

 

[Hope of Glory]

First, I do not base my understanding of salvation on a single verse of text. Second, you have misstated the meaning of John 1:12-13, which clearly speaks of being "born" as children of God, not "maturing" as children of God. That birth is by the will of God; a theme repeated in John 3:

I'm on my lunch break, but I had to confront what you are saying here.

First of all, I have posted many, many verses on salvation, both spiritual salvation and the salvation of the soul.

Secondly, John 1:12-13 is clearly telling those who are born from above that they have the power to become mature children of God. It does speak of being born from above (those who received (aorist) him), but the passage centers around what they do (have the power to become mature children). It talks about both.

If you think your salvation is of works, then you need to explain the contradictions in Scripture that say otherwise.

 

[canadyjd]

I'm on my lunch break, but I had to confront what you are saying here.

First of all, I have posted many, many verses on salvation, both spiritual salvation and the salvation of the soul.

Secondly, John 1:12-13 is clearly telling those who are born from above that they have the power to become mature children of God. It does speak of being born from above (those who received (aorist) him), but the passage centers around what they do (have the power to become mature children). It talks about both.

If you think your salvation is of works, then you need to explain the contradictions in Scripture that say otherwise.

I have never said salvation is of works. I am speaking directly to your assertion that someone who denies Jesus Christ is still saved if he has made a profession of faith in the past. That is a contradiction of the passages I quoted in I John. Address the text if you think I have misread.

peace to youraise:

 

[gekko]

hmm. now that i think about it.

christians are capable of doing any kind of sin.

but, like in earlier posts. do they go out seeking who, where, when, how to sin? do they search out to sin?

i pray that is not true that they search for sin. i pray they search the scriptures and seek after the Lord.

they have then chosen to seek the Lord - not to seek sin. and when they then do sin. it is against their will - which is ultimately God's will.

 

[Marcia]

The greatest sin is denying Christ, and Christians cannot do that, or they would not be a believer. Therefore, a Christian cannot commit all the sins of unbelievers.

I don't see how a saved, regenerated believer would deny the existence of God, etiher.

 

[J. Jump]

That is a contradiction of the passages I quoted in I John.

The overall context of I John is not eternal salvation. That's where a great many make their mistake.

The greatest sin is denying Christ, and Christians cannot do that, or they would not be a believer.

Actually each time you sin you are denying Christ as Lord. Every sin says I am lord of my life. Christians can deny Christ and in fact there are a great many that do.

 

[Gershom]

The greatest sin is denying Christ, and Christians cannot do that, or they would not be a believer.

Peter did. Three times.

 

[DHK]

DHK,

There is a spiritual war occuring in every Christian. I don't believe a Christian goes through life wanting to sin, as Paul said, but instead, struggles with the sin nature that is still present in them. Does this make sense to you?

Joseph Botwinick

Yes you do. There are many times you want to sin. All Christians want to sin, and then they do, willingly, of their own free of will. If they deny this then they are living in denial.
To break the law, any law is sin. To speed is sin.
To lie is sin, even if it is to protect your wife, your family, your reputation, your pastor, etc.
To cheat on your taxes is sin.
To be angry is sin. (The Bible calls it murder)
To look upon a woman lustfully is sin (adultery).
To desire something that is not yours and you cannot have is sin (covetousness)--like a new and better computer or car.
If you don't love your neighbor (Muslims, etc.) as you love yourself, you sin.
"Every idle word that a man shall speak he shall so give account of in the day of judgement" Idle words are sin.

We sin of our own choice; our own will. Look around the board. Look at the posts: some that haven't been edited and probably should have. Look in the humor section and see if all the humor there glorifies God. Or is there some that is off color, biased, prejudiced, making fun of others, etc.
Are there posts that are said in anger?
Are there words in posts that should not be posted? --idle words? empty and vain words?

We sin willfully? We choose to sin. We choose to write what we write, say what we say, and in the tone that we choose. We choose to loose our cool when provoked, when we don't have to. We choose to lust. We choose to covet. We, in short, choose to sin.
DHK

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

DHK,

I am not denying at all that Christians do sin. That is obvious. Even Paul says that he did from time to time. I know I have. What I am denying is that we sin because we want to sin. Paul also denies this as well.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[gekko]

To be angry is sin. (The Bible calls it murder)

to hate is sin. to have controlled anger is not sin. bible calls hate murder.
---

i agree with what Joseph is saying.

 

[DHK]

DHK,

I am not denying at all that Christians do sin. That is obvious. Even Paul says that he did from time to time. I know I have. What I am denying is that we sin because we want to sin. Paul also denies this as well.

Joseph Botwinick

You misunderstand chapter 7 where Paul describes the struggle within him. He concludes with this verse:

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

It teaches that Paul chose to sin. With the flesh he chose to be a servant to the law of sin. To be victorious he had to use his mind to obey the law of God. But it does not say that he did that 100% of the time. There were times when he chose to give into the flesh. He was not forced to do so. He did so of his own free will. No one forces you to sin.

 

[DHK]

to hate is sin. to have controlled anger is not sin. bible calls hate murder.
---

i agree with what Joseph is saying.

The question is: Do you agree with what the Bible says:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[mcdirector]

That is interesting that you would make this statement - What are you going to confess, if your sins have already been forgiven. He died "once" for our sins, and if so, that took care of every sin we did, have, and will do. - but then bring up I John 1:9 at the end of your post.

I John 1:9 teaches in direct opposition to your statement. I John is in the present tense meaning today if I confess my sins He is faithful to forgive, and tomorrow if I confess my sins then He is faithful to forgive and then on Saturday if I confess my sins . . . and the direct opposite of that would be true as well. If I don't confess my sins then He is not obligated to forgive me sins and won't.

The church is teaching a false idea that Christians do not have to confess their sins because they were all forgiven at the cross. All sins are forgiven (past) and can be (forgiven present and future) because of the one-time death and shed blood of Jesus Christ. However present and future sins, must be dealt with on a continual basis.

If they are not that doesn't mean we lose our salvation, that just means we lose fellowship with God, put our inheritance in jeopardy and other things, but salavation is never again an issue after one has believed.

Thanks J.J. :thumbs:

This is exactly what I meant. I am out of fellowship when I sin. I want to, as quickly as possible, regain that fellowship.

I have never heard a line of reasoning suggesting that because we are already forgiven we do not confess our sin as it occurs. I do think it negates 1 John 1:9.

But I didn't need to add anything to J. Jump's post. Just thought I'd letcha know that I agree.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

• Nothing good lives in him in his sinful nature.
• He wants to do good, but cannot do it.
• Instead he does evil
• It is not him that does it, but his sin nature that lives in it. He is struggling with the sin nature, not reveling in it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

• Although he longs to do good, the sin nature that is still there is waging war with his inner being which delights in God's law.

24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

• He is a wretched man because of his sin nature that he struggles with. This is not something that he chooses to revel in as a Christian. It is something that he struggles with.

25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

• Just as he could not save himself, so he cannot rescue himself from the body of death as a Justified Christian. It is God who does that and, by his spirit, puts to death the sinful nature.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[DHK]

• Just as he could not save himself, so he cannot rescue himself from the body of death as a Justified Christian. It is God who does that and, by his spirit, puts to death the sinful nature.

Joseph Botwinick

You are putting your own twist on that verse. That is not what it is saying.
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

1. A person is saved by calling upon the name of the Lord.
2. A person has victory over sin with the mind, as Paul says. With the mind, I serve the law of God. He, of his own will, chooses to do so. He is not forced to do so. This is Christianity not Islam.
3. Just as he can choose with his mind to serve the law of God, he can also choose to seve the law of sin with his flesh. Every man give in to his flesh. This part is not difficult. You choose to sin.

You have a choice to make:

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

You can yield yourself and be an instument of unrighteousness unto sin, OR,
You can yield yourself unto God, and be an instrument of righteousness unto God.

You have that choice to make. No one is going to force you either way. You decide. Who are you going to serve? God or the devil. The choice is yours. Ultimately you will give account to God for the choice that you make.
DHK

 

[canadyjd]

double post