What Time Is It?

[1689Dave]

@1689Dave

Thanks for including those references ... but ... I’m at a loss to understand how this means there will not be a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth post Armageddon when John specifically identifies this in Rev 20 ... with the final battle over Satan and the descending of the New Jerusalem.

I won’t suppose to know much about that period, but it is clear to me it will happen.

Ezekiel 4 addresses the 390 years Israel was in rebellion under that array of “bum” kings “...and he did evil in the sight of the Lord.”

From Leviticus 26 ... the judgement is multiplied 7 fold.

390 x 7 = 2730.

This judgement began with the loss of the 10 northern tribes in 704 BC. .... 2730 - 704 = ?

2 timelines from Daniel
1 from Ezekiel.

Points to the same year.

Did you know the Church is Israel? Peter and others say so.

“You will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation. Those are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’” Exodus 19:6 (REB)

1 Peter 2:9 Peter proclaims this of the Church showing the Church is Israel.
“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)

 

[John of Japan]

So, I take it that you do not take the millennial reign as recorded by John as literal.

interesting.

I thought a-mill thinking was destroyed by the two world wars.

That was actually post-mil thinking, but it is making a comeback. Plenty of a-mil types still around with their allegorical interpretation.

Carry on.

 

[1689Dave]

That was actually post-mil thinking, but it is making a comeback. Plenty of a-mil types still around with their allegorical interpretation.

Carry on.

Jesus taught Amillennialism. The Pharisees taught Pre-Millennialism. You must reject the gospel of the kingdom if you hold to Pre-millennialism or similar beliefs.

 

[Revmitchell]

Jesus taught Amillennialism. The Pharisees taught Pre-Millennialism. You must reject the gospel of the kingdom if you hold to Pre-millennialism or similar beliefs.

Do yu just think this stuff up on your own or does someone make it up for you?

 

[1689Dave]

Do yu just think this stuff up on your own or does someone make it up for you?

Try to learn some history before shooting off your mouth. The Pharisees created Pre-Millennialisam and Jesus refuted it in the gospels.

 

[just-want-peace]

See my post, # 98, in thread Robert E Lee is Going Down .

 

[Two Wings]

Try to learn some history before shooting off your mouth. The Pharisees created Pre-Millennialisam and Jesus refuted it in the gospels.

Do you ascribe to the “immanence doctrine?

if so, why?

I did but no longer

 

[1689Dave]

Do you ascribe to the “immanence doctrine?

if so, why?

I did but no longer

Do you mean Christ's imminent return? If so, yes. I believe we are seeing Satan's loosing since the 1800s and the great apostasy of false prophets that accompanies it.

 

[Two Wings]

Do you mean Christ's imminent return? If so, yes. I believe we are seeing Satan's loosing since the 1800s and the great apostasy of false prophets that accompanies it.

Yes sir, sorry.

I agree with the removal of the restrainer in progress, the apostasy ... and the false prophets. ("prosperity gospel" has exploded in the last couple of decades, yes?)

I believe part of that false teaching originated in your cited 1800s also has us with this "doctrine of immanence" and the pre-tribulation Church rapture. Both are efforts to deny the preparedness of The Bride for The Bridegroom. Daniel, from the "Gabriel download" prophesied with precision the time of Messiah's being cut-off. So while Jesus could have been born "at any time," He wasn't. He was born at the appointed time.

I believe we have been told when to be at "Defcon 1" as we cannot be "at the ready 24/7 indefinitely." Jesus knows this ... even those who were with Him couldn't be ready all night in the garden.

What amazes me is the very people who crucified Him were the very people who KNEW, according to Daniel, THAT year was the one Messiah would be "cut-off." A type/shadow of the End Times delusion, right? Only Nicodemus (apparently) was recognizing what was happening right before him after a lifetime of preaching/teaching The Law and the Prophets.

Noah was told the number of years he had to be prepared.

Moses was told the number of years the Hebrews would wander in the wilderness.

I've already mentioned Jeremiah's prophesy about the duration of being in captivity.

I've taken this one and perhaps a Hebrew scholar can verify/refute, but Jesus' words as He left the Temple for the last time "... not a stone here will be left unturned" apparently sums to 40 ... spoken in 30 (not 33 AD). Prophesying the destruction of the 2nd Temple, which enabled that NO believer was killed when the Romans arrived, because they'd fled PER this prophesy.

So ... I understand from these different passages and parables ... a Post Tribulation/Pre Wrath of The Lamb Church rapture and it is told we will know the season per the fig tree parable. I take that literally. I believe we've been told and can understand The Day of The Lord will happen in a specific 12 month period ... at some point in the future, we'll know within 3 months (a season) ... perhaps which Feast in that 12 month period. Some are already declaring the Feast of Trumpets. That's a 48 hour period, right? So unknown is the day or the hour ... but known is/will be the season. Just like Messiah's being cut off in 30 AD. Daniel didn't report "no one will know the day nor the hour" EVER.

I also understand there is objection to all of this. I accept that. I didn't understand this either until just a few years ago.

It began with a recognition of those things in the sky which we were told to use for sign and for season ... then there was a sign presented on 23 Sep 17 which hadn't happened in (I forget the exact number of years) almost 6000 according to NASA's stellerium program; Rev 12:1-2. I learned about this sign's forming only a month/so ahead of the event. I wasn't sure what to make of it but I do have screen shots of my phone's star tracker program and it presents precisely as told in Rev 12. I began to read again. God reconnected me with a colleague who is the son of missionary parents in Nigeria, he spent his first 16 years on the planet in Nigeria. He'd recently met Robert Mawire, from Rhodesia, who wrote "Chronogram code" just a few years prior to their meeting.

As I worked through Mawire's declaration of revelation in The Word ... I was stunned ... and it made sense to me. I've sought confirmation time and again as has my good friend and colleague. Provided.

So ... when Jesus said "when you see these things, look up for your redemption draws near." He wasn't just whistling Dixie.

I appreciate the opportunity to share this with y'all. I seek only The Truth; His Kingdom and His Righteousness. Everything else is rubbish --- where my ego needs to be the first cast. There's a right way to "be right" and a whole lotta wrong ways. We're not computers, we're people. Being offensive is counter productive. I'll let the Cross be the offense for it reveals my need of Jesus. Anything else is exaltation of self.

 

[1689Dave]

Yes sir, sorry.

I agree with the removal of the restrainer in progress, the apostasy ... and the false prophets. ("prosperity gospel" has exploded in the last couple of decades, yes?)

I believe part of that false teaching originated in your cited 1800s also has us with this "doctrine of immanence" and the pre-tribulation Church rapture. Both are efforts to deny the preparedness of The Bride for The Bridegroom. Daniel, from the "Gabriel download" prophesied with precision the time of Messiah's being cut-off. So while Jesus could have been born "at any time," He wasn't. He was born at the appointed time.

I believe we have been told when to be at "Defcon 1" as we cannot be "at the ready 24/7 indefinitely." Jesus knows this ... even those who were with Him couldn't be ready all night in the garden.

What amazes me is the very people who crucified Him were the very people who KNEW, according to Daniel, THAT year was the one Messiah would be "cut-off." A type/shadow of the End Times delusion, right? Only Nicodemus (apparently) was recognizing what was happening right before him after a lifetime of preaching/teaching The Law and the Prophets.

Noah was told the number of years he had to be prepared.

Moses was told the number of years the Hebrews would wander in the wilderness.

I've already mentioned Jeremiah's prophesy about the duration of being in captivity.

I've taken this one and perhaps a Hebrew scholar can verify/refute, but Jesus' words as He left the Temple for the last time "... not a stone here will be left unturned" apparently sums to 40 ... spoken in 30 (not 33 AD). Prophesying the destruction of the 2nd Temple, which enabled that NO believer was killed when the Romans arrived, because they'd fled PER this prophesy.

So ... I understand from these different passages and parables ... a Post Tribulation/Pre Wrath of The Lamb Church rapture and it is told we will know the season per the fig tree parable. I take that literally. I believe we've been told and can understand The Day of The Lord will happen in a specific 12 month period ... at some point in the future, we'll know within 3 months (a season) ... perhaps which Feast in that 12 month period. Some are already declaring the Feast of Trumpets. That's a 48 hour period, right? So unknown is the day or the hour ... but known is/will be the season. Just like Messiah's being cut off in 30 AD. Daniel didn't report "no one will know the day nor the hour" EVER.

I also understand there is objection to all of this. I accept that. I didn't understand this either until just a few years ago.

It began with a recognition of those things in the sky which we were told to use for sign and for season ... then there was a sign presented on 23 Sep 17 which hadn't happened in (I forget the exact number of years) almost 6000 according to NASA's stellerium program; Rev 12:1-2. I learned about this sign's forming only a month/so ahead of the event. I wasn't sure what to make of it but I do have screen shots of my phone's star tracker program and it presents precisely as told in Rev 12. I began to read again. God reconnected me with a colleague who is the son of missionary parents in Nigeria, he spent his first 16 years on the planet in Nigeria. He'd recently met Robert Mawire, from Rhodesia, who wrote "Chronogram code" just a few years prior to their meeting.

As I worked through Mawire's declaration of revelation in The Word ... I was stunned ... and it made sense to me. I've sought confirmation time and again as has my good friend and colleague. Provided.

So ... when Jesus said "when you see these things, look up for your redemption draws near." He wasn't just whistling Dixie.

I appreciate the opportunity to share this with y'all. I seek only The Truth; His Kingdom and His Righteousness. Everything else is rubbish --- where my ego needs to be the first cast. There's a right way to "be right" and a whole lotta wrong ways. We're not computers, we're people. Being offensive is counter productive. I'll let the Cross be the offense for it reveals my need of Jesus. Anything else is exaltation of self.

I see Dispensationalism (Roman Catholic origins meant to deceive Protestants) and Arminianism (Roman Catholic free will) as key elements in the great apostasy. And Pentecostalism (extra-biblical false revelations) also. The Antichrist Papacy still remains seated in the Temple of God (the Church) through His teaching that still dominates "Christian" thinking.

 

[Two Wings]

I see Dispensationalism (Roman Catholic origins meant to deceive Protestants) and Arminianism (Roman Catholic free will) as key elements in the great apostasy. And Pentecostalism (extra-biblical false revelations) also. The Antichrist Papacy still remains seated in the Temple of God (the Church) through His teaching that still dominates "Christian" thinking.

Aye. I am learning there is much about the Roman Catholic church which departed MIGHTILY from St. Peter's teachings.

one of the things my good friend has said ... to which I cannot substantively object; The Nigerians major in the spiritual, but falter in the knowledge of God (God's Word). We in the West (Protestants in particular) major in the knowledge, but the 'things of the Spirit' are not known to us because we pursue knowledge first/almost exclusively.

by "extra-bilblical revelation" surely you cannot mean the understanding given to the "terminal" generation as told by Gabriel to Daniel. this tells me that the words/message does not change over the 2500 years, but our understanding DOES as The Spirit reveals it.

Let me ask this ... dispensationalism. I've read "the dispensation of grace" ... "law" ... "conscious" each being applied to The Church (2000 years), The Law (2000 years), and Conscious (2000 years)

Is this what you mean/is meant? Perhaps this is a deception, but if it is, it certainly fits with one of the timelines which isn't as specific as the Daniel timelines, but certainly validates the cadence/timing/order. Echoing the creation timeline ... 6 days of creation and 1 day of rest = 6000 years of man's dominion and the 1000 year reign of Christ. The completeness of "three" x 2000 year periods (dispensations?)

What is it they say about a coincidence, trend ... ???

"120 years and My Spirit will strive with man no more." Genesis 6. I used to understand that to be a reference to the length of a man's life post Flood. While that seems to be a general truth, I have learned this is actually a reference to the number of Jubilee Years of man's dominion. 50 years in a Jubilee year ... multiplied by 120. The product of which is 6000.

At 6000 years, man will no longer have dominion over the planet ... and will no longer strive with God because he'll either be destroyed with The Destroyer ... or will be an heir with Christ & no longer will sin reign in the mortal body because the corruptible will have donned the incorruptible. Again, the lion/lamb in the pasture signifying the peace which is restored to the earth.

 

[John of Japan]

Jesus taught Amillennialism. The Pharisees taught Pre-Millennialism. You must reject the gospel of the kingdom if you hold to Pre-millennialism or similar beliefs.

I normally have you on ignore, but I looked to see what Rev. Mitchell was replying to and saw this. Thanks for a good laugh to start my morning off. The idea of finding amil in the writings of Jesus is just that funny.

 

[1689Dave]

Aye. I am learning there is much about the Roman Catholic church which departed MIGHTILY from St. Peter's teachings.

one of the things my good friend has said ... to which I cannot substantively object; The Nigerians major in the spiritual, but falter in the knowledge of God (God's Word). We in the West (Protestants in particular) major in the knowledge, but the 'things of the Spirit' are not known to us because we pursue knowledge first/almost exclusively.

by "extra-bilblical revelation" surely you cannot mean the understanding given to the "terminal" generation as told by Gabriel to Daniel. this tells me that the words/message does not change over the 2500 years, but our understanding DOES as The Spirit reveals it.

Let me ask this ... dispensationalism. I've read "the dispensation of grace" ... "law" ... "conscious" each being applied to The Church (2000 years), The Law (2000 years), and Conscious (2000 years)

Is this what you mean/is meant? Perhaps this is a deception, but if it is, it certainly fits with one of the timelines which isn't as specific as the Daniel timelines, but certainly validates the cadence/timing/order. Echoing the creation timeline ... 6 days of creation and 1 day of rest = 6000 years of man's dominion and the 1000 year reign of Christ. The completeness of "three" x 2000 year periods (dispensations?)

What is it they say about a coincidence, trend ... ???

"120 years and My Spirit will strive with man no more." Genesis 6. I used to understand that to be a reference to the length of a man's life post Flood. While that seems to be a general truth, I have learned this is actually a reference to the number of Jubilee Years of man's dominion. 50 years in a Jubilee year ... multiplied by 120. The product of which is 6000.

At 6000 years, man will no longer have dominion over the planet ... and will no longer strive with God because he'll either be destroyed with The Destroyer ... or will be an heir with Christ & no longer will sin reign in the mortal body because the corruptible will have donned the incorruptible. Again, the lion/lamb in the pasture signifying the peace which is restored to the earth.

The Jesuits launched the "counter-Reformation". Designed to make Protestants believe the Pope was not Antichrist. (all Protestant Creeds of the day said he is. This worked and is why Dispies are looking for Antichrist in the future. Blind to the fact he is still here doctrinally in nearly every church. Google "Jesuits Dispensationalism"
to learn more. Free will is a Catholic doctrine refuted by the Reformers, especially Luther in His Bondage of the Will. Pentecostalism in America is a mixture of Voodoo and Wesley Methodism. You can google this too.

 

[1689Dave]

I normally have you on ignore, but I looked to see what Rev. Mitchell was replying to and saw this. Thanks for a good laugh to start my morning off. The idea of finding amil in the writings of Jesus is just that funny.

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)

Laugh your head off.

 

[Two Wings]

Did you know the Church is Israel?

Hmm ....

no sir. I think this is a misinterpretation. Your passages refer to the Commonwealth of Israel, which includes the "grafted" gentiles.

Israel has a special place in our history. Of that there can be no doubt, but Israel isn't exclusive to God.

here's something to consider ... when Christ is called the "King of Kings" .... who are the "of Kings?"

it's not just Israel; the God-fearing Yahweh-worshipping Israel. It's every believer. Jew/Greek (Gentile) alike.

 

[1689Dave]

Hmm ....

no sir. I think this is a misinterpretation. Your passages refer to the Commonwealth of Israel, which includes the "grafted" gentiles.

Israel has a special place in our history. Of that there can be no doubt, but Israel isn't exclusive to God.

here's something to consider ... when Christ is called the "King of Kings" .... who are the "of Kings?"

it's not just Israel; the God-fearing Yahweh-worshipping Israel. It's every believer. Jew/Greek (Gentile) alike.

Here's how it works. Circumcision made one a Jew, not blood. All of Abraham's slaves became his covenant seed through circumcision. Ishmael was his only blood relative in the group because Abraham circumcised him too.

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” Genesis 17:14 (KJV 1900)

When Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, that was the last generation of circumcised Jews. This was who the apostles ministered to. Today Jews are gentiles with Jewish customs and traditions. Nothing more.

 

[Two Wings]

Blind to the fact he is still here doctrinally in nearly every church.

Oh, I agree ... the spirit of antichrist hasn't left the church ever. This is why I understand the post-trib rapture ... the wrath of the dragon will certainly be experienced by The Church before She is removed prior to The Wrath. (See The Exodus ... where were the Hebrews during the plagues? In Egypt. Protected during the presence of the plagues, but they themselves were present too, not "taken out" until "immediately prior" to the destruction of God's enemies.

But there IS to be an individual in those Last Days ... the final 7 ... who is THE Antichrist. he's described by Daniel and Zech

 

[1689Dave]

Oh, I agree ... the spirit of antichrist hasn't left the church ever. This is why I understand the post-trib rapture ... the wrath of the dragon will certainly be experienced by The Church before She is removed prior to The Wrath. (See The Exodus ... where were the Hebrews during the plagues? In Egypt. Protected during the presence of the plagues, but they themselves were present too, not "taken out" until "immediately prior" to the destruction of God's enemies.

But there IS to be an individual in those Last Days ... the final 7 ... who is THE Antichrist. he's described by Daniel and Zech

You are under the influence of the Jesuits via the Dispensationalists. The only rapture happens on the last day after the resurrection.

 

[Two Wings]

Today Jews are gentiles with Jewish customs and traditions. Nothing more.

great point. But I think that oversimplifies the relationship the Israel of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have.

The descendants of that chosen people DO remain ... even in the practice in The Law, though clearly they're not (yet) sacrificing lambs/sheep/goats/birds/et al as they did before 70AD ... they are about to resume that very thing.

There is a remnant of that people among the secular ethnic Jews who are about as practicing of Jewish ritual as I am ... check that ... less than as I've also started to realize in the last few years the importance of these customs (weddings, the feasts). The "Messianic Jews" will be saved, per Rev 12. The orthodox will be saved ... they'll be the clean-up crew of Ez 42 for 7 years post Armageddon.

 

[1689Dave]

great point. But I think that oversimplifies the relationship the Israel of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have.

The descendants of that chosen people DO remain ... even in the practice in The Law, though clearly they're not (yet) sacrificing lambs/sheep/goats/birds/et al as they did before 70AD ... they are about to resume that very thing.

There is a remnant of that people among the secular ethnic Jews who are about as practicing of Jewish ritual as I am ... check that ... less than as I've also started to realize in the last few years the importance of these customs (weddings, the feasts). The "Messianic Jews" will be saved, per Rev 12. The orthodox will be saved ... they'll be the clean-up crew of Ez 42 for 7 years post Armageddon.

Only the born again like Abraham are Israel today.