What Time Is It?

[Two Wings]

You are under the influence of the Jesuits via the Dispensationalists. The only rapture happens on the last day after the resurrection.

huh?

you believe the rapture has already happened?

 

[1689Dave]

huh?

you believe the rapture has already happened?

As I said, it happens after the resurrection on the last day.

 

[Two Wings]

Only the born again like Abraham are Israel today.

then who are the Jews who "clean up" after Armageddon? Most of 'em are destroyedn in that battle, yes?

 

[Two Wings]

As I said, it happens after the resurrection on the last day.

1 Thess 4:16-17 ...

the rapture IS the resurrection of those who died in Christ in order. I suppose technically, you're right, but practically there's no difference. We're not talking hours/days/months/years between the resurrection of the dead in Christ and those who remain being changed in an instant and caught up to meet Him in the air.

 

[1689Dave]

then who are the Jews who "clean up" after Armageddon? Most of 'em are destroyedn in that battle, yes?

You are making the mistake (typical) of forcing a physical interpretation onto a spiritual book. In fact, adding to it something that is not there. Armageddon is a symbol of spiritual warfare.

 

[John of Japan]

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)

Laugh your head off.

Thinking this verse shows amil shows profound ignorance of Christ's teaching about the kingdom of God and prophecy. "The kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21), but David's throne was and is physical.

And I'm ignoring you again. Your nastiness has already come out on this thread, and I want nothing to do with it. And you show profound ignorance of dispensationalism when you link it falsely to Roman Catholicism.

 

[1689Dave]

Thinking this verse shows amil shows profound ignorance of Christ's teaching about the kingdom of God and prophecy. "The kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21), but David's throne was and is physical.

And I'm ignoring you again. Your nastiness has already come out on this thread, and I want nothing to do with it. And you show profound ignorance of dispensationalism when you link it falsely to Roman Catholicism.

Peter says it is in heaven today if you study his sermon in Act 2. Plus this detail from among many.

“And when thy days [David] be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (KJV 1900)

 

[Two Wings]

You are making the mistake (typical) of forcing a physical interpretation onto a spiritual book. In fact, adding to it something that is not there. Armageddon is a symbol of spiritual warfare.

hmm

what else in prophesy is exclusive of the physical realm? the gathering of of the Jews?

is all physical manifestations of prophesy complete at the crucifixion of Christ?

I believe we'll soon learn about the deal with Armageddon. As I wrote above, the Abraham Accords (which is continuing in spite of the Obama Doctrine) is SUPER radical. I mean ... an Israeli airline overflying Saudi Arabia???? Two years ago I'd have belly laughed at you for suggesting such ... in my profession now and 30 years ago ... I have a unique perspective of just how RADICAL this overflight IS. I'm not exclusive in my understanding, but clearly this is being overlooked by some as relevant to "what time is it."

 

[1689Dave]

hmm

what else in prophesy is exclusive of the physical realm? the gathering of of the Jews?

is all physical manifestations of prophesy complete at the crucifixion of Christ?

I believe we'll soon learn about the deal with Armageddon. As I wrote above, the Abraham Accords (which is continuing in spite of the Obama Doctrine) is SUPER radical. I mean ... an Israeli airline overflying Saudi Arabia???? Two years ago I'd have belly laughed at you for suggesting such ... in my profession now and 30 years ago ... I have a unique perspective of just how RADICAL this overflight IS. I'm not exclusive in my understanding, but clearly this is being overlooked by some as relevant to "what time is it."

We are Israel, so any prophecy you think pertains to the former Jews, pertains to us.

 

[1689Dave]

Thinking this verse shows amil shows profound ignorance of Christ's teaching about the kingdom of God and prophecy. "The kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21), but David's throne was and is physical.

And I'm ignoring you again. Your nastiness has already come out on this thread, and I want nothing to do with it. And you show profound ignorance of dispensationalism when you link it falsely to Roman Catholicism.

Please ignore me unless you are willing to have your views challenged.

 

[Two Wings]

We are Israel, so any prophecy you think pertains to the former Jews, pertains to us.

As I'm learning .... there's the orthodox Jew and the secular Jew as you've also mentioned.

we're not all migrating to the nation of Israel ... but we who are not ethnic Jews ARE grafted into the Commonwealth by Christ Himself.

There are prophesies of Israel which have yet to be fulfilled, but will be very soon.

The consolidation of power "among the nations" is another prophetic statement which will result in the 10 kings under one ruler. It's happening now. A universal church led by the false prophet is being established. A model for Temple Mount is being constructed in UAE right now.

an unholy trininty in Satan, Antichrist, False Prophet. wheat and the tares.

 

[1689Dave]

As I'm learning .... there's the orthodox Jew and the secular Jew as you've also mentioned.

we're not all migrating to the nation of Israel ... but we who are not ethnic Jews ARE grafted into the Commonwealth by Christ Himself.

There are prophesies of Israel which have yet to be fulfilled, but will be very soon.

The consolidation of power "among the nations" is another prophetic statement which will result in the 10 kings under one ruler. It's happening now. A universal church led by the false prophet is being established. A model for Temple Mount is being constructed in UAE right now.

an unholy trininty in Satan, Antichrist, False Prophet. wheat and the tares.

Here's how it works. God removed the unbelieving Jews from Isreal leaving the believers. He then grafted believing gentiles into their place, namely Us. So we are Israel and the unbelievers are not. They are gentiles under God's wrath until the end of the world. But many convert to Christ and rejoin Israel, i.e. the Church.

 

[John of Japan]

To anyone tempted to believe the canard that dispensationalism was invented by Roman Catholics (not that that would make it false, logically speaking), I recommend Ancient Dispensational Truth: Refuting the Myth that Dispensationalism is New, by James C. Morris (2018).

 

[kyredneck]

Today Jews are gentiles

Spot on! And we are the circumcision ...

2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:
3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

 

[Two Wings]

Here's how it works. God removed the unbelieving Jews from Isreal leaving the believers. He then grafted believing gentiles into their place, namely Us. So we are Israel and the unbelievers are not. They are gentiles under God's wrath until the end of the world. But many convert to Christ and rejoin Israel, i.e. the Church.

Then what is Lipid, Israel's current foreign minister? He's as "secular"/unbelieving as they come ... not removed yet.

I understand some of what you're saying, but Christ said Himself He came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it, and He arrived at the appointed time as was given to Daniel.

So we've been under the "age of Grace" for almost 2000 years ... with Christ's Baptism in 26 AD ... which is another substantiation in the precision of God's timing/order/plan.

we've not seen God's wrath since Christ's resurrection. God corrects us ... orchestrates our steps ... but we who are in Christ are not appointed to His wrath ... that would be the house against the house (I forget where that's written off hand)

 

[timtofly]

This is a special gift from me to you. It shows the fallacy of all millennial theories. BTW, A- Mill = no millennium.

Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:


Daniel said; “And in the days of these kings [Old Roman Empire] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” Daniel 2:44 (NCPB)

“And [Jesus] saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” Luke 16:16 (KJV 1900)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)

“I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9 (NASB95)

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12 (KJV 1900)

“That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.” 1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV 1900)

“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.” Acts 19:8 (KJV 1900)

“And when thy days [David] be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (KJV 1900)

“who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son,” Colossians 1:13 (NCPB)

“For the kingdom is the LORD’s: and he is the governor among the nations.” Psalm 22:28 (NCPB)

“Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:” 2 Thessalonians 1:5 (KJV 1900)

There was no Millennium between the Cross and now. That is what Jesus taught. In fact it has been 1991 years.

That is why preaching the coming Millennium exist now since the Cross is wrong.

 

[timtofly]

Jesus taught Amillennialism. The Pharisees taught Pre-Millennialism. You must reject the gospel of the kingdom if you hold to Pre-millennialism or similar beliefs.

I thought the Jesuits invoked pre-mill? The Pharisees taught what Amil teach if they were pre-mill. Jesus did come before such a time period that both amill and Pharisees teach. The issue with the Pharisees is that they totally rejected the first coming and still thought the kingdom started in the first century like amil teach.

BTW, Paul was a Pharisee. So you must be right that Paul teaches in all His writings Premillennialism. Amil should not use any of Paul's writings to point out Amil. That would be hypocritical.

To Paul as a Christian Pharisee, the Second Coming starts the Millennium. To the rest of the first century Pharisees, the Second Coming is still the first coming to them, in theory. The Millennium will happen at that point, regardless of the first century Pharisees' ability to see that there would be two comings of Jesus.

The first century Pharisees were amil in practice, if they were pre-mill in thought. They were amil in timing, since they rejected Jesus. Today's amil just reject the timing, and claim the first coming proves there is no future kingdom after the Second Coming.

Today's amil should not shift their error onto the Pharisees to prove a point. They only had the OT writings to go by. Amil should know better because they have the whole Word of God.

 

[1689Dave]

To anyone tempted to believe the canard that dispensationalism was invented by Roman Catholics (not that that would make it false, logically speaking), I recommend Ancient Dispensational Truth: Refuting the Myth that Dispensationalism is New, by James C. Morris (2018).

The Jesuits laid the groundwork for Dispensationalism. Do your homework.

 

[1689Dave]

I thought the Jesuits invoked pre-mill? The Pharisees taught what Amil teach if they were pre-mill. Jesus did come before such a time period that both amill and Pharisees teach. The issue with the Pharisees is that they totally rejected the first coming and still thought the kingdom started in the first century like amil teach.

BTW, Paul was a Pharisee. So you must be right that Paul teaches in all His writings Premillennialism. Amil should not use any of Paul's writings to point out Amil. That would be hypocritical.

To Paul as a Christian Pharisee, the Second Coming starts the Millennium. To the rest of the first century Pharisees, the Second Coming is still the first coming to them, in theory. The Millennium will happen at that point, regardless of the first century Pharisees' ability to see that there would be two comings of Jesus.

The first century Pharisees were amil in practice, if they were pre-mill in thought. They were amil in timing, since they rejected Jesus. Today's amil just reject the timing, and claim the first coming proves there is no future kingdom after the Second Coming.

Today's amil should not shift their error onto the Pharisees to prove a point. They only had the OT writings to go by. Amil should know better because they have the whole Word of God.

This is not true. You have it exactly backward. Do your homework.

 

[1689Dave]

There was no Millennium between the Cross and now. That is what Jesus taught. In fact it has been 1991 years.

That is why preaching the coming Millennium exist now since the Cross is wrong.

Hint: There is no millennium. It is a false Pharisee Doctrine. A-Mill = No Millennium.