George Antonios
Well-Known Member
What verses do you use?
Thank you.
Thank you.
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What verses say that faith is a gift that God gives man?
- Thread starter George Antonios
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Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 2:8-9
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Particular
Well-Known Member
What verses do you use to show faith isn't a gift given from God?
Particular
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 12:2
Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
ESV
Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
ESV
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Thanks
Particular
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 12:2
Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
NASB
Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
NASB
Particular
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
KJV
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
KJV
Those verses do not say that faith were a gift from God. The gift is being saved.
MB
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No they do not and in fact aside from the fact that the genders do not line up between faith and gift we have the context of Ephesians 2:8 in vs. 5:
even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Further, we have other scripture which tells us that faith is acquired via gospel Romans 10:9-17. See the gospel is inspired by God and because of that it needs no further grace to have its effect.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
So in sum:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
And:
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
And:
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
So if Jesus being the author...of our faith means that he gave us the ability to believe along with the actual believing; what does it mean that Jesus is also the finisher of our faith?
Yes, he authored our faith by dying on the cross and he finished our faith by being resurrected and is now sitting on the right hand of the throne of God. It's all right there in the verse.
Particular
Well-Known Member
For the elect, Jesus gives faith and...Jesus ensures that the elect will have faith...to the end. He authors it and he finishes it. To God be all the glory. No boasting by men...ever.
Particular
Well-Known Member
That is a poor, poor interpretation.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Good point!
Was there grammatical rules 2000 years ago. If so what source are you using for grammar?
MB
Sure, because it doesn't fit your theology. Our faith is in the gospel. That is what saves us.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
1 Cor 15:3-4
If we believe in our heart (the gospel) and declare with our mouth our faith, we will be saved.
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
The death, burial and resurrection is what Peter preached time and time again and is what we need to put our faith in.
Act 2:23-24; Acts 2:31-33; Acts 4:10-12;
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