Featured What Was Adam Pre-Fall

Scripture tells us. Read 1 Cor. 15. I do not know that much more should be needed. We do not to add to what is there.

 

Oh really? That you need to explain because it seems that Scripture is pretty clear that the natural comes first (Adam) and then the spiritual (Christ). I do not know that you can read the verse and walk away believing it actually means that Adam was spiritual, then natural. Even @Iconoclast , who stated that he believes this verse is speaking of Adam first having a physical body and then a spiritual body has the order right.

 

Adam would not have had his eyes opened to the knowledge of good and evil, and death would not have entered the world (or mankind, or even the consciousness of man). There are many possibilities. I think it is important when it comes to this topic that we stick with Scripture regardless of how we want to understand it.

 

I do not believe that is correct. I believe God is not reactionary but sovereign. Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, not from Adam's sin. The Cross was not "plan B".

 

I disagree (surprise). I believe Adam's need was not manifested until he sinned but that human nature always would fall short of God's glory. Adam had a choice not to give Adam the opportunity to live forever but to demonstrate the glory of God in His redemptive plan.

 

From God’s perspective, yes. Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the very foundation of the world (not from the Fall, not from the beginning of the Church age, but from the foundation of the world).

God does not acquiesce to man, even when it comes to salvation. All of creation was made to glorify God. And this glory (IMHO) includes redemption – not as an after thought but as the focus.

Adam was created with a human spirit that would sin, therefore Adam was always in need of a Messiah. The Messiah would come thousands of years later, but this negates neither the need nor the sufficiency of God in providing for that need to His own glory.

It was necessary because Adam was not created with “spiritual life” (with the Spirit of God indwelling in him). Adam was created with a human spirit that would at some point fall short of God’s glory. Adam’s error was wanting to be like God. I do not find it appropriate to hold that Adam was in fact like God.

First the natural, the first Adam. Second the spiritual, the last Adam becoming a life-giving spirit.


We will never agree on this, David. It is interesting to work through and hopefully edifying at least that we can both see what the other believes.

 

I do not think we can use that term. Spiritual death (IMHO) is the absence of the indwelling of the Spirit but at the same time it has a sence of being in bondage to the law of sin and death (sin as a master).

I believe Adam had a human spirit (that which is common to natural man). So while I believe the term may not apply I guess technically it would be the same spirit.

I believe that sin, not the human spirit, is what separates God from man.