What We Believe...Are You Listening?!?

He got everyone’s attention. What makes me different from them? At this point, there is no difference, we all heard the call…

At best, Rev. G.. I was hateful to God. How about you. Did you hate God. Did you call him hateful names, did you do hateful things to get even with him for being God? Did the thought of him make you want to puke?

What awful things did you do for the purpose of venting your hate? Did you gossip about him behind his back? What did you know about God that caused you to hate him? What did he do that just rubbed you the wrong way.

If you hated him, surely it produced a pantheon of emotion, tell me about it...

What’s your point here? In your scripture, they knew God, but did not glorify him: (Same, same; they rejected him.) Those are the lost. I said, “I did not know him”…

When I submitted, God taught me. He allowed me to come just as i was. I’m still learning. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit helped a lot…

Notice the symmetry in my response. That’s what you guys need, some symmetry…

[ November 01, 2002, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

That is not what you asked me rev. G. Did you understand my first answer? OK, why did I believe and they did not. I believed because the evidence convinced me that Christ was telling the truth.

Why did they not believe? Rev. G., I could give you my guestimation, yet you would recognize it for what it was would you not. Unfortunately, I am not privy to the hearts of men. I suggest that in order to get a more valid answer, perhaps you should find some that did not believe and ask them why. The reasons will turn out to be as varied as the number of people that you ask…

Even today, Rev. G., do you understand all spiritual truths. Spiritual truths help us to understand how to walk with God. Physical truths teach us that we need God. How could I submit while I was still at enmity with God? When I believed God based on the physical evidence and reasonableness of what God was teaching; God made that possible.

Who brought me to a point of submission? God did it!!!!! He brought me, he did not force me.

How about my question for you in my last post. Did you ever hate God? I then proceeded to ask a group of questions.

I would love to hear your answer...

[ November 01, 2002, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Hello Rev. G.
Is the truth acceptable. Here is your answer again. I believed because the evidence convinced me that Christ was telling the truth. What made me different is that I accepted, they did not... Really, it's that simple... As for why others did not acccept, that i cannot provably answer. Why not get your answer straight from the horses mouth. Ask some that did not believe.

On a mountain far away, stood an old rugged cross.
The emblem of suffering and shame.
But I loved that old cross
Where the dearest and best.
For a world of lost sinners was slain.

That helped more than you can ever know, yet to top it off, the gospel: The word of God unto salvation. And then there was the Holy Spirit.

Well he just sat there looking all beautiful, wonderful, compssionate, loving, righteous, just, and holy: And he had all this power, yet when i looked into his eyes, all I could see was his love.

Then I saw me in his reflection, and I was all dirty, detestable, nasty, and sinfully un-holy. And I was ashamed. I began to struggle to get out of the mire, but I could not. So he reached down and picked me up: And he told me, that tho my sins be as scarlet, he would wash me white as snow. But I said, Lord I am not worthy. He said, I know, but I am worthy to wash you. His goodness far out weighed my sins. So he cleaned me up, turned me around, set my feet on solid ground.

And dat's da truth....

Well, Rev. G. How did he get you to where you are???

[ November 02, 2002, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

That is an untrue statement. "Free Will" opposes Calvinism in BOTH cases.

IF one denies the doctrine of total depravity and argues for FREE WILL - they "oppose Calvinism".

IF one accepts the doctrine of free will but allows that the DRAWING of John 12:32 is SUFFICIENT to "ENABLE" what depravity "DISABLES" in terms of establishing free will - then that TOO opposes Calvinism.

There is no hope in pretending that only one of those cases of "Free will" opposes the Calvinist doctrine.

So - back to the point - the issue is NOT the starting condition of man - it IS the emphasis on John 12:32 (and the like) saying EITHER that "God DRAWS ALL MANKIND unto HIM" or that "God draws ALL TYPES of mankind - ie the FEW of Matt 7".

BOTH groups "can" agree on total depravity and both can agree that the John 12:32 DRAWING is sufficient (At a minimum) to "ENABLE" what depravity "DISABLEs" in terms of choice.

Which leaves you with the classic problem already illustrated on a number of threads when we allow the argument to advance to this point.

It gets back to the predicatable problem of Calvinism having to "redefine ALL MANKIND" down to "ALL TYPES of mankind - such that it is only the arbitrarily selected FEW of Matt 7".

And then - as some Calvinists have noted - "declaring that God Fails" if beings enabled to choose - do not choose God (Adam, Lucifer or fallen humanity ENABLed to choose)

In Christ,

Bob

[ November 02, 2002, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]

 

I cannot explain other people's unbelief. I am not most people. I do know what people say who do not believe. They choose not to believe. I've seen people who literally break before me but say they just don't want to believe. They realize they need the Saviour, but they don't want to let go.

Some people believe; some do not. Some people like chocolate. Some do not. You'll have to ask them why they don't believe. It's a choice that they make.