What would make you change your opinion?

[Dave G]

No one has independently come up with either the five points of Armenianism or the five points of Calvinism through independent study of the Bible and faith in Jesus.

I have.
I also know of several who have come up with both...
"Arminianism" and "Calvinism".

Most have to be taught through a church, a seminary, youtube, a book other than the Bible, or even worse - a group designed to evangelize the theology.

I agree.

Most professing Christians have to be taught, through other means, the truths of "Calvinism".
Most professing Christians have to be taught, through other means, the "truths" of "Arminianism".

I know of very few that read the Bible for themselves and come up with "Calvinism" all on their own, though I have met a few.
One is a long-time brother in Christ, another is a guy I grew up with in the same Baptist church I was converted in.
Occasionally I hear of career "pastors" that have learned it in "bible college" and lead the occasional church in my area...though there are far less "Calvinist" ( perhaps two ) Baptist churches in my area that teach it.

I know of many more that read the Bible for themselves and come up with what is known as "Traditionalism" ( 4-point "Arminianism", 1 point "Calvinism" ).
Most of these are career "pastors" in the churches I once frequented when I was a young believer.

I know of several that read the Bible for themselves and come up with full, 5 point "Arminianism" all on their own.
Most of these are also career "pastors" in the churches that line certain streets in my area.



Overall, I know of very few that even bother to read the Bible for themselves, but instead trust the pastors and teachers that they are exposed to, to give them those doctrines through sermons.

 

[MartyF]

Use the same words, different dictionary.

To me, independently does not mean I know half-a-dozen people who are Calvinists/Armenians, but I “independently discovered” it.

It means one is so alone in the belief of believer’s baptism, there is no one to baptize.

Baptists did not have any one major “founding” leader because there was no need to have it explained. Anyone who had the opportunity to read the Bible could clearly understand that infant Baptism was not the correct tradition. Yet, believing resulted in death for many and other punishments all the way to the mid-1800s.

Calvanism does not have the same pedigree even with personal stories which can’t be substantiated.

 

[Dave G]

Use the same words, different dictionary.

Perhaps.
But I use the only dictionary I know...God's word and my own, personal understanding of it.

To me, independently does not mean I know half-a-dozen people who are Calvinists/Armenians, but I “independently discovered” it.

To me, independently means independent of anyone but God, showing me something.
Scripture is my only text, the Holy Spirit my only Teacher.

It means one is so alone in the belief of believer’s baptism, there is no one to baptize.

"Believer's baptism" is biblical.
Infant baptism is not.
Whether or not I baptize someone is not up to me, it is up to God.

Baptists did not have any one major “founding” leader because there was no need to have it explained.

I agree.
One need only read and believe Scripture, and trust in it alone to determine that believer's baptism is true.

Anyone who had the opportunity to read the Bible could clearly understand that infant Baptism was not the correct tradition. Yet, believing resulted in death for many and other punishments all the way to the mid-1800s.

Again, infant baptism is not Scriptural...full immersion of a believing, confessing person is...that is part of why I identify as a "Baptist".
Yes, the belief in believer's baptism has resulted in the deaths of some that believe and teach it, even at the hands of "Calvinists" as well as Catholics, from my understanding of history.

Calvanism does not have the same pedigree even with personal stories which can’t be substantiated.

"Calvinism" is and was the teachings of John Calvin ( Jean Cauvin ), who believed in infant baptism ( carried over from his time in the Roman Catholic Church, I believe ), a general atonement for all and a few other items I'm not able to recall at the moment.
Whether or not personal stories can be substantiated, I came to my beliefs in TULIP independent of anyone teaching them to me.

I couldn't care less about "pedigrees", as my faith is a gift from God, and my belief of Christ as my eternal Saviour became real for me at the age of 12 during the preaching of the Gospel through the word of God in an Independent Baptist Church.

I don't identify with "denominations".
I identify with my Saviour, Jesus Christ and His words alone.

From my perspective, what you call "Calvinism" is anything that makes God the sole author of salvation, start to finish, which includes choosing His children apart from the merits or efforts of men to gain His favor.
What I call "Calvinism" is the totality of what is contained in Calvin's "Institutes of the Christian Religion", and encompasses "Reformed Theology" in its entirety.
As I see it, It is alive and well in the Dutch Reformed churches and in various Presbyterian churches today.


I am what is considered by some as a "Particular Baptist" ( which is what most Baptists once identified with, some 200 years ago or more before the split into "Particular and Regular / General" happened )... not "Reformed", not "Presbyterian", not "Anglican" and definitely not "Calvinist".

You are free to malign me, castigate me, lambast me, doubt my testimony, call me a liar, and anything else you may feel led to do...
But the Lord tells me that I should not speak evil of men and that I should forgive those who trespass against me.
I should also bless those that curse me.

Speaking of which:

Apparently, it seems that you've mocked me in other threads.
Here is a sample:

It’s settled then. Everyone must bow to the will of Dave Gilbert.

To me, this is a form of ridicule or reviling, and you've made it plain to me that you do not like me or some of the things that I stand on.

However,

I bear you no lasting animosity, and no ill will.
I cannot guarantee that my future posts will be free of things that you personally find offensive, but I can guarantee that they will be free of any intended offense towards you.


This is my last reply in this thread.

May God bless you richly sir, and may He make His face to shine upon you.
I wish you well, and may the wonders of His grace be shown to you and your family in the days and years to come.

 

[MartyF]

Another person performing an eye examination.

I didn’t know this was quote people out of context day! I’m going to play too! Is that ok?

The New, Living Translation ( snappy marketing technique, in my opinion...advertise it as "living", thereby implying that others are "dead" ).

Now...are all of today's translators being completely faithful to the process, or are some "fudging it" to try and put out more competing translations to sell, because their backers are paying for it to be done?

"Christian"

What exactly is it that you hate about the AV?
Too hard to read?

You will have to answer to God for it

Now I want to make it plain and clear that the above posts are taken out of context as a demonstration as to why one shouldn’t cross-post.

I bear you no lasting animosity, and no ill will.

Cross-posting a portion of a post from another thread is not a way to show no lasting animosity and no ill will.

You need to realize that when people disagree with you that is not an insult. And it’s definitely not persecution. And if someone doesn’t believe the personal experiences of a random person on the internet, that person shouldn’t take it personally.

Among other things, mentioning how many years one has spent studying something and extravagantly blessing one’s enemies makes one appear pompous. And my bringing this up obviously upsets you. One shoudn’t publicially pray blessings on other people just like the Pharasees did and just like Jesus said one shouldn’t.

One should pray blessings in private. Or if it is some greeting or farewell, one should pray the same one for everyone.

Now, I have made my opinion very clear about Calvanism and Armenianism. I haven’t been hiding in sheep’s clothing. You should have known that I was going to be harsh and unreceptive. I did not make this fact hidden. Especially on this thread. Similarly, you have not been kind and gracious on translation threads with translators other than the ones who worked on the AV.