What Would You Do [drinking issues]?

[righteousdude2]

Let's say you visit a nice sit-down restaurant after Sunday morning church services, and a few tables over, or booths, you spot a deacon or one of your pastors enjoying a meal with another family from church!

You stop by to say your hello's and notice that in front of the ladies are half-full wine glasses. While in front of the men are glasses of beer!

Do you just forget about it, or do you mention it to the lead pastor, or the head Deacon?

 

[InTheLight]

If it were Friday night instead of Sunday lunch would the situation be different?

 

[Zaac]

Let's say you visit a nice sit-down restaurant after Sunday morning church services, and a few tables over, or booths, you spot a deacon or one of your pastors enjoying a meal with another family from church!

You stop by to say your hello's and notice that in front of the ladies are half-full wine glasses. While in front of the men are glasses of beer!

Do you just forget about it, or do you mention it to the lead pastor, or the head Deacon?

You should have given them a copy of your poll and told them that you need to wait to see what the "consensus" says before you decide what is right in dealing with them.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[righteousdude2]

Would that ....

You should have given them a copy of your poll and told them that you need to wait to see what the "consensus" says before you decide what is right in dealing with them.:smilewinkgrin:

.....matter. I am truly interested in what members say on this. It is no different than condemning gays and not condemning fornication and adultery! Gee, now I sound like .... you! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Jerome]

This sort of direct confrontation seems to be missing from the OP's options:

From Spurgeon's Autobiography [a grateful man is recounting how Spurgeon burst into a tavern and confronted him]:

"he points at me with his finger, just so, and says, "What doest thou here, Elijah? Sitting with the ungodly; and you a member of a church, and breaking your pastor's heart. I'm ashamed of you! I wouldn't break my pastor's heart, I'm sure." And then he walks away. Well, I did feel angry; but I knew it was all true, and I was guilty; so I put down my pipe, and did not touch my beer, but hurried away to a lonely spot, and cast myself down before the Lord, confessing my sin and begging for forgiveness."

 

[righteousdude2]

Well ....

.... I'm not being a prude, but in my heart, I think this sends a bad message to others in the church who do not drink and find drinking offensive. And I think we need to be careful to not cause another to stumble! :jesus:

 

[SolaSaint]

I guess it would depend on the churches covenant or by-laws. If it breaks these then they need to be confronted but not in public, I would wait until a meeting was scheduled.

 

[RLBosley]

This sort of direct confrontation seems to be missing from the OP's options:

From Spurgeon's Autobiography [a grateful man is recounting how Spurgeon burst into a tavern and confronted him]:

"he points at me with his finger, just so, and says, "What doest thou here, Elijah? Sitting with the ungodly; and you a member of a church, and breaking your pastor's heart. I'm ashamed of you! I wouldn't break my pastor's heart, I'm sure." And then he walks away. Well, I did feel angry; but I knew it was all true, and I was guilty; so I put down my pipe, and did not touch my beer, but hurried away to a lonely spot, and cast myself down before the Lord, confessing my sin and begging for forgiveness."

Spurgeon's problem seemed to have been with the environment the man was in, not that he was smoking or drinking. That was in a tavern. A bit of a different environment than the nice restaurant imagined in the OP isn't it?

 

[righteousdude2]

Is there a difference?

Spurgeon's problem seemed to have been with the environment the man was in, not that he was smoking or drinking. That was in a tavern. A bit of a different environment than the nice restaurant imagined in the OP isn't it?

I never thought of that, brother. Do you think the Holy Spirit doesn't care if we drink so long as it's in a nice eating establishment? That would be an interesting side bar to this.

It would be kind of like arguing that sleeping with your neighbros wife in a Marriot Suite is acceptable to sleeping with a prostitute in a flop-house, flea trap motel? Just askin'?

 

[RLBosley]

I never thought of that, brother. Do you think the Holy Spirit doesn't care if we drink so long as it's in a nice eating establishment? That would be an interesting side bar to this.

It would be kind of like arguing that sleeping with your neighbros wife in a Marriot Suite is acceptable to sleeping with a prostitute in a flop-house, flea trap motel? Just askin'?

Really? :BangHead: You aren't "just asking" anything. Equating drinking with adultery... YGTBKM...

 

[righteousdude2]

IS one sin ....

Really? :BangHead: You aren't "just asking" anything. Equating drinking with adultery... YGTBKM...

.... any different than another? Are there levels regarding sin(s).

Look, you said, drinking in a fine eating establishment is not the same as drinking in a
Tavern!"

So, if a person committed ANY other sin in a less seedy place, does that excuse the sin or make it less of a sin! And yes, I am asking, because I would love to know how drinking in a tavern is different than in a "nice restaurant!"

You stated, "Spurgeon's problem seemed to have been with the environment the man was in, not that he was smoking or drinking. That was in a tavern. A bit of a different environment than the nice restaurant imagined in the OP isn't it?"

And I am just asking what is the difference between drinking in a tavern versus a nice restaurant? I didn't write this post to draw a line between where one activity is acceptable and another isn't. I think I asked a fair question based on the premise you presented, per Spurgeon! BTW - I never really cared that much for theologians. They are one of the problems with the church. One denomination quotes and applies one theologian's principles, while another group quotes and applies anothers.

The question is and remains, What would you, YOU do in this situation! I'm certainly see no difference between a bar, home, or sit down restaurant. I am asking if a person didn't believe in drinking and was offended by seeing a deacon and several others enjoying some first class wine and beers were observed doing this, what would you do! I think you did a great job at dodging the question, so, I presented you with another scenario! It doesn't have to be adultery, but any sinful action in there and respond to the question.

What would you do? What would Jesus do [if something we didn't view as sin, offended someone who viewed it differently]?

I am sorry if that response bothered you, because it wasn't intended. I was trying to determine where you were coming from, based on , let's say, Spurgeon?

 

[evenifigoalone]

I personally believe it to be alright in moderation, so I wouldn't say anything. Or, say I was totally against it...in that case I'd feel it was between them and God, none of my business.

 

[evangelist6589]

Let's say you visit a nice sit-down restaurant after Sunday morning church services, and a few tables over, or booths, you spot a deacon or one of your pastors enjoying a meal with another family from church!

You stop by to say your hello's and notice that in front of the ladies are half-full wine glasses. While in front of the men are glasses of beer!

Do you just forget about it, or do you mention it to the lead pastor, or the head Deacon?

I would ignore it. I do not think drinking is a sin as the Bible does not teach that it is. The Bible teaches that DRUNKENNESS is a sin.

 

[evangelist6589]

I personally believe it to be alright in moderation, so I wouldn't say anything. Or, say I was totally against it...in that case I'd feel it was between them and God, none of my business.

You hit the nail on the head. People need to learn to mind their own business on this issue and STOP ASSUMING that everyone whom has a drink in moderation will fall into sin.

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. (Genesis 14:18)

And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees? (Judges 9:13)

And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. (Psalm 104:15)

He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for man to cultivate--bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart. (Psalm 104:14-15, NIV)

Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do. (Ecclesiastes 9:7, NIV)

Jesus saith unto them, "Fill the waterpots with water." And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, "Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast." And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, "Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." (John 2:7-10)

Not given to wine. (1 Timothy 3:3)
Likewise must the deacons be not given to much wine. (1 Timothy 3:8)

No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your
stomach and your frequent ailments. (1 Timothy 5:23)

 

[righteousdude2]

Thanks

I would ignore it. I do not think drinking is a sin as the Bible does not teach that it is. The Bible teaches that DRUNKENNESS is a sin.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Bro. James]

Whatsoever is not of Faith is sin

"It is not what goes in that defiles, but what comes out."

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging."

Where does it say alcohol improves spiritual discernment?

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump."

Moses had a problem with the fruit of the vine--cursed be Canaan.

When one considers the history of alcohol and its overall effect on society, which continues through today, one might conclude Satan is using such as a stumbling block.

Sin in moderation is still sin.

Which ones are the Christians? They all look and act the same as the world.

I have seen social alcohol destroy many in my family. Best leave it alone in any circumstance.

Go to an AA meeting before you decide.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Revmitchell]

The very minute one becomes the least bit "buzzed" one has sinned.

 

[Rolfe]

Let's say you visit a nice sit-down restaurant after Sunday morning church services, and a few tables over, or booths, you spot a deacon or one of your pastors enjoying a meal with another family from church!

You stop by to say your hello's and notice that in front of the ladies are half-full wine glasses. While in front of the men are glasses of beer!

Do you just forget about it, or do you mention it to the lead pastor, or the head Deacon?

Unless it violates a church rule or covenant or is inconsistent with his publicly-stated position, it is none of your business.

If the temptation to butt in cannot be resisted, at least don't resort to gossip; but speak with the individual quietly and privately, then a witness, etc. Cannot think of the reference, but the protocol is somewhere in the New Testament for confronting a brother over sin.

Not all have the same opinion about alcohol.

 

[just-want-peace]

The daughter of a couple in my SS class became addicted in her younger years to alcohol due to seeing a very prominent lady of their church drinking, ergo, assuming that it was OK.

From what I gather, she had quite a struggle overcoming the problem, but at this point is in control!?

I don't know any more than that, but how much blame would you put on the lady - for causing the stumbling of another - versus the daughter for her choice to emulate an elder????

Don't touch the stuff myself, but frankly I have tipped the glass a few time in the dim dark past, and am afraid that if I made it a habit could become one of "those" addicts!! So, for that reason, AND any possible influence I could have had on my kids and others now, I totally abstain.

This is my choice, but I'm not going to condemn you if you choose differently; cause I have yet for anyone to cite scripture that says "DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL!"

 

[Yeshua1]

Let's say you visit a nice sit-down restaurant after Sunday morning church services, and a few tables over, or booths, you spot a deacon or one of your pastors enjoying a meal with another family from church!

You stop by to say your hello's and notice that in front of the ladies are half-full wine glasses. While in front of the men are glasses of beer!

Do you just forget about it, or do you mention it to the lead pastor, or the head Deacon?

Do we also check to make sure they do not have cable tv, nor taking theirfaliies out to movies?


If they were having A beer, or glass of wine, would be within their liberty, bit now if they are ob?viously sloshed and drunk?