What Would YOU see as being "Disputable Doctrines?"

[quantumfaith]

This is another one of those needles aspersions on non-Cals, posted out of ignorance or just plain meanness. If the latter, it is against the BB rules and worthy of an infraction.

We believe in John 14:6. Only Christ can save.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[quantumfaith]

You are truly confused.
No, faith doesn't save. None of us ever said it did.
Contrary to your beliefs, grace doesn't save either. You are confused.

For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves.
Only Christ can save. He alone saves.
Not faith; not grace. Only Christ.
The grace is the grace shown to us at the cross by Jesus Christ.
Faith is the means by which one is saved.
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.

Do you believe in sola fide?

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[TCGreek]

Yes, our arm/non-cals believe faith salvific, misunderstanding many passages and doctrines. Faith is a product of grace, and it is grace that saces. But proof-text methodologies are rampant within this camp who oppose the truth of DoG/Reformed/Calvinist doctrine. Thus their many spurious conclusions.

Be careful with your calvinistic zeal.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Be careful with your calvinistic zeal.

Now why in heavens name would you say that.....was Spurgeon, Lloyd-Jones, Boyce, Luther, Pink etc werent they all enthusiastic about there theology? Does enthusiasm weaken the gospel message?

 

[quantumfaith]

Be careful with your calvinistic zeal.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[JesusFan]

This is another one of those needles aspersions on non-Cals, posted out of ignorance or just plain meanness. If the latter, it is against the BB rules and worthy of an infraction.

We believe in John 14:6. Only Christ can save.

have you not CONTINUALLY though here cast aspersions upon those holding to DoG, calling us at different times ignorant, beliving in mystisicsm, fake faith God is our pupper master, injects people with 'faith needle" etc!
Just saying that you have at times diffentlty "belittled" some of us holding to that and expressing our convictions in the matter!

Not being mean here, or trying to provake anyhting, just stating that at times almost klike refusing to adress the issue ona "biblical" basis and go to attacking cal "straw men' doctrines!

 

[DHK]

have you not CONTINUALLY though here cast aspersions upon those holding to DoG, calling us at different times ignorant, beliving in mystisicsm, fake faith God is our pupper master, injects people with 'faith needle" etc!
Just saying that you have at times diffentlty "belittled" some of us holding to that and expressing our convictions in the matter!

Where have I not spoken the truth. And if I have spoken wrongly or erred, I usually have apologized. I don't speak lies about others, and deliberately so. I may be blunt and forthright. But I don't lie.
It is not faith that saves. That is a lie. We don't believe that.
It is not grace that saves. If you believe that you are deceived.
It is Christ that saves. He alone can save. Check John 14:6

 

[DHK]

Now why in heavens name would you say that.....was Spurgeon, Lloyd-Jones, Boyce, Luther, Pink etc werent they all enthusiastic about there theology? Does enthusiasm weaken the gospel message?

Perhaps he had in mind those posts that fall into this category:

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. (Romans 10:2)

 

[JesusFan]

Where have I not spoken the truth. And if I have spoken wrongly or erred, I usually have apologized. I don't speak lies about others, and deliberately so. I may be blunt and forthright. But I don't lie.
It is not faith that saves. That is a lie. We don't believe that.
It is not grace that saves. If you believe that you are deceived.
It is Christ that saves. He alone can save. Check John 14:6

actually, its the truine God Himself that saves us, but what is the "agent" that God uses to redeem us?

Our faith in Jesus, or the Grace that He applies towards our account?

 

[JesusFan]

Perhaps he had in mind those posts that fall into this category:

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. (Romans 10:2)

Even though those men were preaching/teaching the bible and Gospel of jesus Christ!

 

[DHK]

Even though those men were preaching/teaching the bible and Gospel of jesus Christ!

If they are preaching the gospel to me they are barking up the wrong tree.
I am already saved, as should be all those that are in this forum. So to do exercise that right they should stay behind their own pulpits.

 

[preacher4truth]

Be careful with your calvinistic zeal.

I'll just be me and keep my zeal for Christ and truth.

 

[preacher4truth]

It does clear it up about what you meant by the equation. I think it could have been stated better. I certainly don't think that Calvinists are not saved. I don't know where anyone had even intimated that. But it certainly was not me. Thank you for clarifying.

I am not saying that faith saves. I am saying that faith in Christ alone saves. I believe in faith alone in Christ alone. That is the position, I believe of the Bible. So when the Bible talks about faith, it is talking about faith in Christ. The people were healed by their faith in Christ. People are saved by their faith in Christ.

I understand that we will differ about how that faith comes about. I can fully understand why you believe the Bible teaches that. I don't think that is what the Bible is teaching.

I believe that I over-reacted because I thought you were saying that we believe that just any ol' faith will save a person. That is not what I believe and certainly not the belief of any truly saved person.

Please forgive the over-reaction.

Thanks and not a problem Tom. :thumbsup:

 

[preacher4truth]

Possibly so. He doesn't like the word "ignorance". But that is what he posts out of--ignorance of what the non-Cal believes. If he had the knowledge of what the non-Cal believes (or at least most of us here) he wouldn't post the things that he does.

I like the word ignorance and you know that! It's due to me knowing what it means. I recall an exchange between you and I concerning this, leading me to teach you what it means and sharing with you that it isn't a word worthy of infractions. I see you now agree and have chosen to use this good descriptive word yourself against me personally, all the while lending to others and myself the same liberty to also use this good descriptive word. :wavey:

Not that you are correct in your assumption, it's rather that you do err within your own false, unwarranted, assumptions yet again.

You are the one posting here out of ignorance of what I know, as I do know what non-cals believe, and after reading much of your beliefs as a non-cal, others, myself included, are able handily to point out your errors. Thus we have the BB to debate your fallacies in a forum.

By the way, I was what one would've called a non-cal as an IFB pastor. Fortunately by the grace of God, and by His leadership, I have come to see the truths of DoG, and embrace the teachings of Calvinistic theology. :thumbsup:

 

[preacher4truth]

You are truly confused.

You've rather desribed yourself here.

When I say grace saves, just as Paul said "by grace you are saved" (Ephesians 2:8) both he and I know what this term means, and that it is descriptive of Jesus alone saving. You've missed that somehow in the passage, and I apologize I didn't elaborate this truth to which you are responding, and share the truth of it with you in detail. I do, however, appreciate the opportunity to teach what it means, and to share this great truth at this time with you. You have to learn to dig deeper to get contextual meanings and understanding, and basic subject knowledge that grace here refers to that of Christ, and that He alone saves.

 

[JesusFan]

You've rather desribed yourself here.

When I say grace saves, just as Paul said "by grace you are saved" (Ephesians 2:8) both he and I know what this term means, and that it is descriptive of Jesus alone saving. You've missed that somehow in the passage, and I apologize I didn't elaborate this truth to which you are responding, and share the truth of it with you in detail. I do, however, appreciate the opportunity to teach what it means, and to share this great truthat this time with you. You have to learn to dig deeper to get contextual meanings and understanding, and basic subject knowledge that grace here refers to that of Christ, and that He alone saves.

Think a simplistic way to view this is that we who hold to DoG would say God kills off oll self, nothing good was ever in it, and we put on "new man"

Non Cals would tend to see it as God did a "reclamation" on our old selves, as we were still with enough "good remaining" to have ourselves renovatted, almost like a God "make over!"

 

[preacher4truth]

Think a simplistic way to view this is that we who hold to DoG would say God kills off oll self, nothing good was ever in it, and we put on "new man"

Non Cals would tend to see it as God did a "reclamation" on our old selves, as we were still with enough "good remaining" to have ourselves renovatted, almost like a God "make over!"

Not sure I would conclude the non-cals to that level. I would like to hear their response to this. However, I do see within your remarks a bit of truth as several hold that man is just not that bad and some reject the truths of Romans 3, 8, Ephesians, Colossians as far as the indictments upon the lost state of man within those passages.

I believe this is because they fail to see man as God sees man from His view, and in that, they are desribing how they feel about man from their view, which is erroneous and sheds much light upon the subject and tunrs their fallacy into a glaring error. These also hold a rather lofty view of lost man, one that God doesn't Himself hold to within His Word. I like the way Paul saw himself, his efforts, religion, works after he met Christ, and it wasn't pretty, good, nor was it acceptabe whatsoever before holy God. :thumbsup:

 

[convicted1]

Think a simplistic way to view this is that we who hold to DoG would say God kills off old self, nothing good was ever in it, and we put on "new man".

Not picking at you Brother, but if we were dead as you say we were, then how could God kill the "old man"? You can't kill something that is already dead. So, here shows where being spiritually dead means "seperated from God". When God forgives our sins, He places us in Christ, thereby, being reconciled back to God, through Jesus. I agree that nothing was good in the "old man", being seperated from God by sin. The old man, being "dead in sins and trespasses", is put into God's righteousness by Jesus' shed blood.

Non Cals would tend to see it as God did a "reclamation" on our old selves, as we were still with enough "good remaining" to have ourselves renovatted, almost like a God "make over!"

Well, God in essence, did "reclaim" us by sending His Son to die for us. Look at Hosea and Gomer for a perfect example. Gomer was Hosea's wife, and though she belonged to him by being his wife, he still had to buy her back for thirty pieces of silver. That is what Jesus did for God's creation. Although we belonged to Him via creation, Jesus bought us back for thirty pieces of silver. And no, none of us could ever be good enough to merit salvation, let alone save ourself.

 

[JesusFan]

[

QUOTE=preacher4truth;1721539]Not sure I would conclude the non-cals to that level. I would like to hear their response to this. However, I do see within your remarks a bit of truth as several hold that man is just not that bad and some reject the truths of Romans 3, 8, Ephesians, Colossians as far as the indictments upon the lost state of man within those passages.

Agree, was not trying to make anything derogatory in those remarks, as said was simplistic, just think that there IS indeed a LARGE differnce between how we would see the fall affected mankind and our inability to relate/respond towards God, and how our non cal bethren see the effects upon us!

I believe this is because they fail to see man as God sees man from His view, and in that, they are desribing how they feel about man from their view, which is erroneous and sheds much light upon the subject and tunrs their fallacy into a glaring error. These also hold a rather lofty view of lost man, one that God doesn't Himself hold to within His Word. I like the way Paul saw himself, his efforts, religion, works after he met Christ, and it wasn't pretty, good, nor was it acceptabe whatsoever before holy God. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]