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What would your answer be...

steaver

Well-Known Member
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is God obligated to offer salvation to ANYONE?

Don't we ALL deserve hell?

I don't know if "obligated" is the right word, but God is the cause of Adam's fall, and thus I believe God's plan was to offer salvation in His plan which was formed before the foundation of the world. So in that sense, God obligated Himself to provide salvation.

Do we all deserve hell? Yes, but God has also implemented a plan for salvation before the foundation of the world.
 

percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don't know if "obligated" is the right word, but God is the cause of Adam's fall, and thus I believe God's plan was to offer salvation in His plan which was formed before the foundation of the world. So in that sense, God obligated Himself to provide salvation.

Do we all deserve hell? Yes, but God has also implemented a plan for salvation before the foundation of the world.

My question is, Does God save, or does God just offer salvation?
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
Yesuha....

You posted...

is God obligated to offer salvation to ANYONE?

Don't we ALL deserve hell?

No. God is not obgligated to save anyone, but God, in His great love, has made clear in the scriptures that He desires to save all, and that he, in wonderfull His grace, has given saving "Light" to every person who has walked the earth.

The "whosoever wills" will be saved, and the "whosoever wonts will not..

Praise God for His great provision.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yesuha....

You posted...



No. God is not obgligated to save anyone, but God, in His great love, has made clear in the scriptures that He desires to save all, and that he, in wonderfull His grace, has given saving "Light" to every person who has walked the earth.

The "whosoever wills" will be saved, and the "whosoever wonts will not..

Praise God for His great provision.

is he under complusion to offer salvation to ALL sinners though? is it mandotory that Jesus death provoded for any and all to be able to get saved by him, or just limited to thsoe God intended his death for?
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yesuha....

You posted...



No. God is not obgligated to save anyone, but God, in His great love, has made clear in the scriptures that He desires to save all, and that he, in wonderfull His grace, has given saving "Light" to every person who has walked the earth.

The "whosoever wills" will be saved, and the "whosoever wonts will not..

Praise God for His great provision.

You should be used to this question by now AIC, so here goes...."if God desires to save all, why arent all saved?"
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You should be used to this question by now AIC, so here goes...."if God desires to save all, why arent all saved?"

cal response " Sinners go to where they desire to go"

arm response"sinners go where they want to go"

Cal response" NONE can be saved unless God so Wills"

Arm response" None can be saved unless they so Will!"
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
You should be used to this question by now AIC, so here goes...."if God desires to save all, why arent all saved?"

Because God does not want ROBOTS who come to come to Him because they have been pre-programed to do so.

Its all through the scriptures. God giving His people choice.

In the garden Gods people had choice.

In the old covenant period Gods people had choice

And in our currant times Gods people have choice

Its always been that way.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don't know if "obligated" is the right word, but God is the cause of Adam's fall, and thus I believe God's plan was to offer salvation in His plan which was formed before the foundation of the world. So in that sense, God obligated Himself to provide salvation.

Do we all deserve hell? Yes, but God has also implemented a plan for salvation before the foundation of the world.

but God is the cause of Adam's fall,

God is not the cause of mans sin.God does not sin or cause it.God is Holy and cannot sin. Do not blame God for mans sin.

and thus I believe God's plan was to offer salvation

God has planned to accomplish salvation which he has done.

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He actually obtained full redemption for an actual people He calls the elect.
 

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
God is not the cause of mans sin.God does not sin or cause it.God is Holy and cannot sin. Do not blame God for mans sin.
Adam is responsible for his own sin, however, God set him up to fail. God knew Adam would choose sin if givin the opportunity, which God provided.

If TULIP is true, then it would prove to be so unnecessary for God to provide Adam a choice to sin. God could have avoided all the hell and damnation and just created mankind that would always obey and love Him, as TULIP declars God does now.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Adam is responsible for his own sin, however, God set him up to fail. God knew Adam would choose sin if givin the opportunity, which God provided.

If TULIP is true, then it would prove to be so unnecessary for God to provide Adam a choice to sin. God could have avoided all the hell and damnation and just created mankind that would always obey and love Him, as TULIP declars God does now.
1] I am not sure you understand the doctrine that is known as tulip

2]
God set him up to fail.
Does the bible say this? If not ,why do you?

3]
God knew Adam would choose sin if givin the opportunity, which God provided.


You keep making the same mistake...God does not do...IF GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY.....
Third, they are free. "Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being His counselor hath taught Him? With whom took He counsel, and who instructed Him, and taught Him in the path of judgment, and taught Him knowledge, and showed to Him the way of understanding?" (Isa. 40:13,14). God was alone when He made His decrees, and His determinations were influenced by no external cause. He was free to decree or not to decree, and to decree one thing and not another. This liberty we must ascribe to Him who is supreme, independent, and sovereign in all His doings.

Fourth, they are absolute and unconditional. The execution of them is not suspended upon any condition which may, or may not be, performed. In every instance where God his decreed an end, He has also decreed every means to that end. The One who decreed the salvation of His elect also decreed to work faith in them (2 Thess. 2:13). "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isa. 46:10): but that could not be, if His counsel depended upon a condition which might not be performed. But God "worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11).

aw pink
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
Yeshua...

You posted...

is he under complusion to offer salvation to

ALL sinners though?

I dont think of it as "cumpulsion , but rather It is His HEARTS DESIRE for all to be saved. God says clearly...

It is not my desire that any be lost, but that ALL would come to repentance
In adition, read the prodigal son passages.


is it mandotory that Jesus death provoded for any and all to be able to get saved by him, or just limited to thsoe God intended his death for?

God gives saving Light to every person who comes into the world no exceptions. That covers those who have never heard. Those who HAVE yeard are saved via the gosple of course.

Have you read the Helen Keller book? She was blind and deaf from birth, but when the teacher fingered that she was going teach her about God, Helen fingered back...Good, I have been thinking about Him for a long time.

Praise God
 
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steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1] I am not sure you understand the doctrine that is known as tulip

2] Does the bible say this? If not ,why do you?

Here you have to be careful for this happens alot in debate. We are speaking of theology and by the very nature thereof we have expressions of our own which we believe are based upon the way scripture reveals events or decrees to us.

I could say the same to you about "Total Depravity", Does the bible say this? If not ,why do you?

Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement and Iresistible Grace as well. You will not find these very words listed in the scriptures.

Would you agree that God knows all things from the end to the beginning? If so, then God knew very well that Adam and Eve would indeed eat of that tree when God placed it before them. It is God's plan and it is God alone who planned for Adam to fail and for Jesus Christ to be glorified through that failure.
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Coming back to the 'numbered stepping points', my answer to the last numbered point (ie: after establishing the fallenness of the enquirer and Jesus' atoning death on the cross etc) would be simply this, at first blush: "ask". Further expansion on this last point would include:

1. Repent: this requires a life-change starting with a change of mindset, a re-orientation of the soul away from self and towards Jesus Christ, transforming heart and mind. This is primarily a work of the Holy Spirit and will happen in response to "asking" God to do this: the HS gives us grace to see our sin for what it is and turn away from it

2. Believe: faith or belief is another entirely free gift from God and is another guaranteed response from God to "asking"; belief is only possible by grace and the help of the HS, Who opens our eyes and mind to accpet and believe the truth. Belief/ faith is taking Jesus at His word, to believe the words of John 3:16 not just in our heads but in our hearts.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua...

You posted...



I dont think of it as "cumpulsion , but rather It is His HEARTS DESIRE for all to be saved. God says clearly...

In adition, read the prodigal son passages.




God gives saving Light to every person who comes into the world no exceptions. That covers those who have never heard. Those who HAVE yeard are saved via the gosple of course.

Have you read the Helen Keller book? She was blind and deaf from birth, but when the teacher fingered that she was going teach her about God, Helen fingered back...Good, I have been thinking about Him for a long time.

Praise God

God desires that all would get saved, but provided for ONLY thsoe whom he chose inChrist to actual be abled to get saved!

His desire is general, His will in regards to thsoe whom are the Elect was specific and sure!
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
Yeshua...You posted...

God desires that all would get saved, but provided for ONLY thsoe whom he chose inChrist to actual be abled to get saved!

His desire is general, His will in regards to thsoe whom are the Elect was specific and sure!

Well, you probably know that I consider that to be false doctrine.

God gives "oportunity" to every person who walks the earth. The "choosing" is for the lost person to repent and choose Christ/God, not God arbitrarilly choosing His pre-selected robots, as calvinism advocates.. .
 
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