Isaiah40:28
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Well, if that's the best you've got, then that's all you can say.Amy.G said:
But think on this:
Jesus only died for believers, no matter what you call your view.
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What's the point of Jesus dying for everyone?
- Thread starter Isaiah40:28
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But think on this:
Jesus only died for believers, no matter what you call your view.
Isaiah40:28
New Member
Yes, God only made salvation possible for believers.webdog said:
He can't make salvation possible for unbelievers.
Isaiah40:28
New Member
It was never truly possible, webdog.webdog said:
Salvation for unbelievers is forever impossible according to the mind of God.
He knows that they will never believe, therefore salvation is never truly possible for them.
You can say it's possible, but you're just playing with words.
For it be truly possible, God cannot fully know their eternal destination.
Hence the view of Open Theists.
Isaiah40:28
New Member
Except that which is impossible, God's perfect knowledge of all things being uncertain.Amy.G said:
That verse has context.
And God fully knows their unbelief does He not?
So how can salvation truly be possible for those who are known by God to be unbelievers?
Is He wrong?
Can He change their status to believers?
JN 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
That is not true is it? Why misrepresent us? I believe God loved Jacob but hated Esau. Just as it's written. I believe God decided this before taking any sins into consideration (and no man can do good). This plain piece of scripture, Rom 9:11-13, states quite plainly and boldly that God hated Esau before Esau had been born, before he had done right or wrong and before he knew what hit him. But you say God loves all men and if God loves all men then many questions arise, questions we have questioned you and Amy about without receiving any answers ex.
How can God hate Esau yet love the world? A mystery.
How can God love every man when He keeps a record of their sins to punish them by? Love does not keep a record of wrongs. 1 Cor 13:5.
If God loved every man then why did He create Hell? Love is kind. 1 Cor 13:4.
Love protects. 1 Cor 13:7. What kindness is there in creating people that One knows are going to Hell regardless of reasons why they go? What protection did God give Esau? He hated Esau before he was born or had done anything right or wrong. His rights and wrongs were not part of that hatred shown him. Where is the love in Hell?
Love cares and is self-sacrificial, why was Abraham stopped from relieving the richman's thirst, no gulf is too big for God is it?
LK 16:24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' 25 "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
Where is there love there Amy, ex? Point it out to me please.
I don't see a drop of love anywhere.You can quote me any time you like ex.
I don't use other men's work to support me as I use scripture which supports me. I don't know where my understanding of 1 Sam 3:14 came from, whether I read it somewhere or if it sprang from me but I have checked it out and have found no contradictions coming back. The plain reading of the text is that God swore on oath that no atonement would ever be given for Eli's house. I conclude from this that since no atonement was given for Eli's house then Eli's house has had no atonement given, not offered. It is you that ignores the plain reading by trying to modify the plain meaning. You claim only the shadow is meant and you keep blanking the point that the atonement given, not offered, to the nation of Israel is not the reality. God uses the physical representation of physical Israel to show spititual Israel spiritual truths. The spiritual truth behind the physical representation is that Eli's house received no atonement.(johnp. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=39453&page=15 )
Does that make sense? Thanks nep.
john.
John, what does the word "hate" mean in this scripture?
Luke 14
26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
Since we are commanded to love our parents, what does Jesus mean by "hate his father and mother"?
Luke 14
26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
Since we are commanded to love our parents, what does Jesus mean by "hate his father and mother"?
I'm not John P , but Rippon with a double P . In Luke 14:26 when Jesus was saying that those who come after Him hate their relations "hate" is figurative . In contrast to our earthly relations and the love we have toward them --- our love toward the Lord should be seen as far-surpassing that of our love to our relatives . We are not told to hate our family members .
But In Romans 9:13 for instance , the "hate" of the Lord is literal . The Lord did not say in that place that He loved Esau less than Jacob or that Jacob was loved more than Esau -- : Jacob I loved , but Esau I hated .
So , just as the words "all" , "world" etc. mean different things depending on the particular context -- so does the word "hate" .
But In Romans 9:13 for instance , the "hate" of the Lord is literal . The Lord did not say in that place that He loved Esau less than Jacob or that Jacob was loved more than Esau -- : Jacob I loved , but Esau I hated .
So , just as the words "all" , "world" etc. mean different things depending on the particular context -- so does the word "hate" .
The word "hate" used in Romans 9:13 and Luke 14:26 are the same word. The same meaning according to Strong's.Rippon said:
So, did Jesus mean to actually "hate" our mother and father in the emotional sense? Or did He mean "to love less"? Since it's the same word, you have to give the same meaning to both scriptures.
God loved Esau less than Jacob. He did not "hate" Esau in the same sense that He "hates" sin.
We have to love our parents "less" than God.
Hello Amy.
If any man come (5736) to me, and hate (5719) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot * (5736) be (5750) my disciple. (Strong.)
to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
to be hated, detested
http://www.studylight.org/desk/view.cgi?number=3404
That is what it means.
Free will doesn't understand love. DT 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.
Love of God demands all your being, by order, any other love a person has is idolatrous. To love others as ourselves is to do with making sure people have enough for life like we do for ourselves. Loving our parents is doing as they tell us when we are kids and making sure we do not bring dishonour to them at any time. What does not come from love is hate.
LK 9:59 He said to another man, "Follow me." But the man replied, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father." 60 Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."
How can God hate Esau yet love the world Amy?
There is a very good resource available at http://www.studylight.org/ for finding out about the meaning of the words used in scripture. Just type the word you want defined and select Strong from the drop down menu. It's all Greek to me apart from that.
john.
If any man come (5736) to me, and hate (5719) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot * (5736) be (5750) my disciple. (Strong.)
to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
to be hated, detested
http://www.studylight.org/desk/view.cgi?number=3404
That is what it means.
Free will doesn't understand love. DT 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up.
Love of God demands all your being, by order, any other love a person has is idolatrous. To love others as ourselves is to do with making sure people have enough for life like we do for ourselves. Loving our parents is doing as they tell us when we are kids and making sure we do not bring dishonour to them at any time. What does not come from love is hate.
LK 9:59 He said to another man, "Follow me." But the man replied, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father." 60 Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."
How can God hate Esau yet love the world Amy?
There is a very good resource available at http://www.studylight.org/ for finding out about the meaning of the words used in scripture. Just type the word you want defined and select Strong from the drop down menu. It's all Greek to me apart from that.
john.
Here's a thought. If salvation was never possible, then there was nothing to reject. They are being punished for absolutely nothing. A choice is making a decision between two or more things. If it were never possible to choose Christ, it's also not possible to reject Him either.
I'm waiting on you then Amy.
Hello rippon.
If one says that hate has a range of meanings going from detesting another person to a disinterest in their welfare then the definition in Strong's does not support it. I would say that a disinterest in another's welfare is hatred expressed and that is reduced to us calling it a disinterest by our false judgement on the depth of the sin we are in when we are uncaring.
What you think?
john.
Hello rippon.
If one says that hate has a range of meanings going from detesting another person to a disinterest in their welfare then the definition in Strong's does not support it. I would say that a disinterest in another's welfare is hatred expressed and that is reduced to us calling it a disinterest by our false judgement on the depth of the sin we are in when we are uncaring.
What you think?
john.
What are you waiting for?johnp. said:I'm waiting on you then Amy.
Hello rippon.
If one says that hate has a range of meanings going from detesting another person to a disinterest in their welfare then the definition in Strong's does not support it. I would say that a disinterest in another's welfare is hatred expressed and that is reduced to us calling it a disinterest by our false judgement on the depth of the sin we are in when we are uncaring.
What you think?
john.
As far as the statement above.....huh????