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What's the worse case scenario if we don't raise the debt limit?

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Havensdad

New Member
You posted numbers but the numbers are bogus. What you have is parlor tricks that the US government uses to make the balance sheets look good, but they are actually false. The debt has never went down from the time of Regan until now. It is impossible to fix the debt and we will default in the near future.

Yes, and only YOU have the RIGHT numbers...

How ridiculous.

Yes it is possible to pay off the debt, and balance the budget. We certainly will not default. Before the government did that, they would, with one click of the mouse, pay off the debt, and instantly devalue your retirement fund (if it is in US dollars, anyway). Its actually quite easy.
 

freeatlast

New Member
Yes, and only YOU have the RIGHT numbers...

How ridiculous.

Yes it is possible to pay off the debt, and balance the budget. We certainly will not default. Before the government did that, they would, with one click of the mouse, pay off the debt, and instantly devalue your retirement fund (if it is in US dollars, anyway). Its actually quite easy.

Simply hilarious! :laugh:
 

Havensdad

New Member
Simply hilarious! :laugh:

Its true. Apparently you are not familiar with the way paper money works, and a little concept called quantitative easing. The Fed can increase the sum total of available dollars as much as they wish. They could literally, with a click of the mouse, pay off our national debt. It would just devalue the dollar tremendously ( a GREAT thing for those with home mortgages, car loans, and so on).

So again, we will not default. In fact, the idea of a default is completely outside the realm of possibilities. We will either get our act together, and balance the budget, or in effect "cheat" by printing more money.
 

freeatlast

New Member
:laugh:
Its true. Apparently you are not familiar with the way paper money works, and a little concept called quantitative easing. The Fed can increase the sum total of available dollars as much as they wish. They could literally, with a click of the mouse, pay off our national debt. It would just devalue the dollar tremendously ( a GREAT thing for those with home mortgages, car loans, and so on).

So again, we will not default. In fact, the idea of a default is completely outside the realm of possibilities. We will either get our act together, and balance the budget, or in effect "cheat" by printing more money.

Simply hilarious!
 

freeatlast

New Member
That's a great argument. Mind of a steel trap you have...what are you, 12? I really find it hard to believe that a believer in Christ could act so immaturely.


Call it what you want the debt cannot be fixed. We will default in the near future and lose just about everything we have because of a devalued dollar.
 

billwald

New Member
>It would just devalue the dollar tremendously ( a GREAT thing for those with home mortgages, car loans, and so on).

That's why you gots to differentiate between money inflation and price inflation. We will get price inflation. The cost of consumer goods will skyrocket but they will get their mortgage payments.
 

Havensdad

New Member
>It would just devalue the dollar tremendously ( a GREAT thing for those with home mortgages, car loans, and so on).

That's why you gots to differentiate between money inflation and price inflation. We will get price inflation. The cost of consumer goods will skyrocket but they will get their mortgage payments.

Yeah. Your not understanding me. When the value of the dollar decreases, and prices of consumer goods skyrocket, EVERYTHING skyrockets, because the value of the dollar goes down. So for instance, when the Peso plummeted, and a loaf of bread cost a million pesos, those who were still working were making 50 million pesos per week... So as the value of the dollar plummets, and wages (though they will not keep up), likewise skyrocket, it can actually get to the point where you can pay off your mortgage or car payment with one weeks salary. This is particularly true if you are invested in a different commodity. like gold. Suddenly you are able to pay off your home loan, with one ounce of gold...
 

Havensdad

New Member
Call it what you want the debt cannot be fixed. We will default in the near future and lose just about everything we have because of a devalued dollar.

You might as well be telling us the moon is made of green cheese. You have nothing to back up this statement with, except a doomsday mentality.
 

righteousdude2

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We Will ONLY Know IF.....

....it comes to pass! Let it happen and let's see if the world ends, of if we just have one more reason to not trust what our elected leaders tell us!
 

rbell

Active Member
First off SS is not part of the problem. It is self sustained (pay as we go) as there is 2.5 trillion in bonds waiting to be cashed in held in the fund making the fund solvent until around 2030 at which time the baby boomers will be dying off and the pay out will decrease.

SS should not be a consideration as it is self sustaining with a 2.5 trillion surplus at least oin the books.

SS is teetering on insolvency. Your "facts" are wrong.

Government IOU's do not equal "self-sustained."

Furthermore, we are approching a 1:1 ratio (contributors to beneficiearies) fairly quicly. Furthermore, life expectancies are now such that many will receive SS for decades (something FDR didn't have to factor in).

You couldn't be more wrong about Social (in)Security, a.k.a., "Legalized Ponzi Scheme," a.k.a., "Congress' secret cookie jar," a.k.a., "My kids likely won't see a dime of this."
 

freeatlast

New Member
You might as well be telling us the moon is made of green cheese. You have nothing to back up this statement with, except a doomsday mentality.


Call it what you like this is all going to come crashing down. No amount of shuffling of number will stp that as the debt cannot be fixed.
 

freeatlast

New Member
SS is teetering on insolvency. Your "facts" are wrong.

Government IOU's do not equal "self-sustained."

Furthermore, we are approching a 1:1 ratio (contributors to beneficiearies) fairly quicly. Furthermore, life expectancies are now such that many will receive SS for decades (something FDR didn't have to factor in).

You couldn't be more wrong about Social (in)Security, a.k.a., "Legalized Ponzi Scheme," a.k.a., "Congress' secret cookie jar," a.k.a., "My kids likely won't see a dime of this."


SS is not the problem as it is pay as you go and there is 2.5 in bonds in the system even if they are held by a government that is broke. The problem is the over spending of funds that are not there and since it has went on for so long it is now past correcting. We will default in the near future.
 

Havensdad

New Member
Call it what you like this is all going to come crashing down. No amount of shuffling of number will stp that as the debt cannot be fixed.

Yep, and there are little green men on Mars that are going to take over. Make up whatever kind of fantasy you like to justify your political positions, the debt CAN and SHOULD be fixed, as I and others on here have clearly shown.
 

poncho

Well-Known Member
:laugh:

Simply hilarious!

Actually Havensdad is right. We could pay off our debt by printing up more money but that would devalue the dollar even more. Not that the dollar has much value anymore.

The value (purchasing power) of the dollar has been devalued 95 - 97% since the Federal Reserve system was created in 1913. So, there isn't much wiggle room left for further devaluation.

Look at it this way, what cost 20 dollars in 1913 now costs around 450 dollars! This is the effect of creating money from nothing.

QE2, what happened to the money?

In effect 600 billion dollars plus or minus a few billion was taken out of our pockets and handed to foreign banks where it now sits collecting interest. How does this help our economy? It doesn't!

Setting Things Right

Whatever is responsible for causing the local credit crunch, trillions of dollars thrown at Wall Street by Congress and the Fed haven’t fixed the problem. It may be time for local governments to take matters into their own hands. While we wait for federal lawmakers to get it right, local credit markets can be revitalized by establishing state-owned banks, on the model of the Bank of North Dakota (BND). The BND services the liquidity needs of local banks and keeps credit flowing in the state. For more information, see here and here.

Concerning the gaping federal deficit, Congressman Ron Paul has an excellent idea: have the Fed simply write off the federal securities purchased with funds created in its quantitative easing programs. No creditors would be harmed, since the money was generated out of thin air with a computer keystroke in the first place. The government would just be canceling a debt to itself and saving the interest.

As for “quantitative easing,” if the intent is to stimulate the economy, the money needs to go directly into the purchase of goods and services, stimulating “demand.” If it goes onto the balance sheets of banks, it may stop there or go into speculation rather than local lending — as is happening now. Money that goes directly to the government, on the other hand, will be spent on goods and services in the real economy, creating much-needed jobs, generating demand, and rebuilding the tax base. To make sure the money gets there, the 1935 law forbidding the Fed to buy Treasuries directly from the Treasury needs to be repealed.

SOURCE

Better yet, abolish the Federal Reserve system along with it's unconstitutional enforcment arm known as the IRS!
 
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freeatlast

New Member
Yep, and there are little green men on Mars that are going to take over. Make up whatever kind of fantasy you like to justify your political positions, the debt CAN and SHOULD be fixed, as I and others on here have clearly shown.

Never been there so I will take your word for it, but the debt cannot be fixed and we will default and fall from what we are.
 

freeatlast

New Member
Actually Havensdad is right. We could pay off our debt by printing up more money but that would devalue the dollar even more. Not that the dollar has much value anymore.

The value (purchasing power) of the dollar has been devalued 95 - 97% since the Federal Reserve system was created in 1913. So, there isn't much wiggle room left for further devaluation.

Look at it this way, what cost 20 dollars in 1913 now costs around 450 dollars! This is the effect of creating money from nothing.

QE2, what happened to the money?

In effect 600 billion dollars plus or minus a few billion was taken out of our pockets and handed to foreign banks where it now sits collecting interest. How does this help our economy? It doesn't!

Setting Things Right

Whatever is responsible for causing the local credit crunch, trillions of dollars thrown at Wall Street by Congress and the Fed haven’t fixed the problem. It may be time for local governments to take matters into their own hands. While we wait for federal lawmakers to get it right, local credit markets can be revitalized by establishing state-owned banks, on the model of the Bank of North Dakota (BND). The BND services the liquidity needs of local banks and keeps credit flowing in the state. For more information, see here and here.

Concerning the gaping federal deficit, Congressman Ron Paul has an excellent idea: have the Fed simply write off the federal securities purchased with funds created in its quantitative easing programs. No creditors would be harmed, since the money was generated out of thin air with a computer keystroke in the first place. The government would just be canceling a debt to itself and saving the interest.

As for “quantitative easing,” if the intent is to stimulate the economy, the money needs to go directly into the purchase of goods and services, stimulating “demand.” If it goes onto the balance sheets of banks, it may stop there or go into speculation rather than local lending — as is happening now. Money that goes directly to the government, on the other hand, will be spent on goods and services in the real economy, creating much-needed jobs, generating demand, and rebuilding the tax base. To make sure the money gets there, the 1935 law forbidding the Fed to buy Treasuries directly from the Treasury needs to be repealed.

SOURCE

Better yet, abolish the Federal Reserve system along with it's unconstitutional enforcment arm known as the IRS!

No the debt cannot be fixed. Printing money to pay the debt is like saving someone's leg but they die of gangrene. So anyone who proposes that the debt can be fixed is in la la land. The so called cure will kill the patient. So the debt cannot be fixed and we will default and lose just about everything we have in the near future.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

freeatlast

New Member
As you can see in the late 90's the debt was reduced in those couple of years that the budget ran a surplus and we paid down on the debt. Also went down after WWII and throughout the 50's and up to the mid-1960's.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/USDebt.png

No the debt has never went down. The debt as a fraction to GDP has went down but not the debt.
The debt is too great to fix and we will go under as a nation.
http://cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/USDebt.png
 
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