What's Wrong with Younger Pastors'???

[righteousdude2]

I was hoping some of you could provide me some insight into what I see as a trend among the younger pastors leading our churches today!

By younger, I mean those in the 18-49 age group!

I was the kind of pastor who went out of my way to make everyone, and I mean everyone, feel welcome, important and special. If I noticed that someone was not in church on the weekend, and I had not heard from them [like going to be out-of-town, on vacation, sick, etc.], I'd make a visit or at least a telephone call to let them know they were missed...

If the person starting missing more and more, I'd go to great lengths to find out why, and see if there was anything I could do to get them back to church!

In our church, each week we are asked to fill out an attendance card, and note special prayer needs, etc., but I think those are simply for counting attendance, because I have requested a visit or call from the pastor and gotten neither!

In fact, I invited our pastor and wife over to dinner, and out to dinner on several different occasions, and only got a blank stare and what is now believed to be a polite, "We'll have to set something up, let me call you this week!"

If you are following my thoughts so far, you already know that I never got a call...

And this behavior is not just from this pastor. It is the same no matter where we worshiped over our 34 years of marriage!

This pastor won't return phone calls; return e-mail notes; or make an attempt to reach out beyond what he does from behind the pulpit!

His dad started this church, and his dad and mom, who still attend the church, were like me. They went out of their way to make everyone feel loved, important, and part of the family. And they still do this, even though they are in the 80's and retired!

I have asked others if they have similar experiences in their churches, and get the same feelings! The newer generation of pastors preach lights out, but, are poor when it comes to being social!

This does not mean I don't love my pastor, but, in order to make this post make sense, I needed to use him and his failings in the social arena as an example to get my question across to you!

Is it that our pastors today, lack the hand's one ability and desire to build up a family and keep it close?

 

[SolaSaint]

Dude,

How are you? I'm assuming you attend a smaller church, say 150 or less? I think I can feel your pain though. I have been working with young people for over the past 23 years in my job and also a little in the church and I don't think this anti-social issue is about Pastors only, I feel most all younger people are like that. They have their noses buried in I-Phones or tablets and mostly interact through Myspace or Facebook. I don't think they feel the need to get close to people. Now that is just wrong if you're a Pastor, I don't care how old you are.

When I was saved (1986) the church I went to always went out of the way to invite you to lunch or have you over or come over, it was the norm. Now in the Sunday school class we attend, we get the same looks when you ask someone out to eat. I don't get it. I don't like it. I even see it in my neighborhood, no one wants to get to know you.

 

[SolaSaint]

I forgot to say, we just hired a 32 year old Pastor last week. I will keep you posted on how he does socially. :thumbsup:

 

[righteousdude2]

Gracias!

I forgot to say, we just hired a 32 year old Pastor last week. I will keep you posted on how he does socially. :thumbsup:

To answer your question SolaSaint - I am doing well, all things considered! Thanks for asking! I pray you are fine, too!

I appreciate your honest, and candid response! We attend a church of about 400, and the people are open to the things I shared, it is just our pastor, God love him! It took my being in critical care three years ago, to get a visit from him! You know, we lived in our home [before we had to let it go in a short sale] for 19 years, and our present pastor was our shepherd for 10 of those 19 years, and he never once stepped foot in our home. And it wasn't due to a lack of inviting him and his wife to stop by for refreshements and fellowship! I'd even invite him on the weekly attendance cards, just in case he didn't hear or remember my verbal invite before or after a service!

It just surprises me that pastors are like this, and it explains why our church has lost some very good families to other churches in the area! I am still close to several families that left and went to another church in order to get some personal love and attention! BTW - the few families I am speaking of found churches with "older" pastors [over 55 years of age].

God bless you SS, will see if anyone else feels as I do! Again, I don't mean to complain....I am just asking if others sense this too, or am I just being too demanding in what to expect from a pastor, today!

 

[Revmitchell]

ummm....age has nothing to do with the issue in the op.

 

[Havensdad]

Since I am a pastor in the age group you are addressing, let me answer.

As far as hospitality goes, and fellowship (hanging out for dinner, etc.), me and my wife DO do that.

As far as chasing around people that decide they would rather stay home and watch football? Nope. Not going to chase people around. My visitation is for members who are sick, and suffering, and for evangelizing. I am not going to spend my time chasing people around, trying to "herd the goats." It is unfruitful, unbiblical (there is absolutely NO biblical warrant for it) and consumes WAY too much of your pulpit ministry time.

A pastor's primary responsibility is the pulpit. Serving the physical needs of people in the church, including social visitation, is primarily the job of the deacons (Acts 6). This doesn't mean that we don't care about people, or do nice things for them, or make them feel welcome...we just don't use our study time, and pulpit time, for jobs that are rightly someone else's for, "Act 6:2 And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables."

So that is a big part of this: for too long the church has been viewed like a business, with the pastor seen as a salesman sent to round up dissatisfied customers.

But I will also tell you another big part of it. For the last 20-30 years or so, church participation has dropped off A LOT. So people come to church, they drop money in the plate, but a person actually getting involved is rare. And so what happens is us "younger pastors" of small churches, end up doing EVERYTHING. After fixing the sound system, the roof, and the air conditioner, and squeezing in some study time, you don't really have time to do anything else.

ESPECIALLY if you have a family. Us "younger pastors" have a wife, and kids, that "older" pastors don't have to deal with...and these deserve our time as well.

 

[Bob Alkire]

ESPECIALLY if you have a family. Us "younger pastors" have a wife, and kids, that "older" pastors don't have to deal with...and these deserve our time as well.

Keep in mind the older pastors were young pastors at one time too. I think we just looked at it different. I would say in a year I had been in every members home and except for two churches I was always bivo, but never pastored a church with much over 300. At 300 we would open another church and split.

 

[Havensdad]

Keep in mind the older pastors were young pastors at one time too. I think we just looked at it different. I would say in a year I had been in every members home and except for two churches I was always bivo, but never pastored a church with much over 300. At 300 we would open another church and split.

No doubt. But do you know how many times I have heard one of my older mentors (pastors and ex pastors), talk about the last generation "sacrificing the family on the altar of ministry?" The divorce rate among pastors was, I believe, higher than the national average!

The pastor is NOT a businessman, and church members are not customers that we have to chase around and "re-sell" on our product.

Further, there is a reason the church has two offices.

 

[gb93433]

Is the pastor in your church heeding the advice given in Exodus 18:17-27: If he is, then he is doing his job in leading. That means not everyone will be coddled by him and have access to him. I have found the troublemakers wanted my time a lot. Whereas those those who wanted to grow wanted my help in helping them to learn to disciple others. By training leaders it got away from a pastor centered environment and placed the ministry among the congregation. Even leaders in business will not be successful if they try to everything. Many of them lose their marriages while good workers leave. If a church expects to grow then God's work should be spread across the congregation.

One thing I have noticed is that typically those who went to large high schools do not have the same expectation of pastors as those who went to small high schools.

I taught in a high school that would considered large by most. In a picture of one of the classes in Los Angeles some us counted at least 100 students in one class. Smaller classes do not always make better students. discipline is what counts not less bodies. Smaller classes assumes that the teacher does all the teaching. When I taught I utilized some of my top students to help in one class. They learned a lot because they showed students how to do work they already learned. They also did many of the same things I did. One example would be sharpening tools. They learned how to sharpen tools well because they had to sharpen a lot of them for beginners.

In fact when I taught at the university I began using online education in conjunction with in class lectures. I found that the students gained an average of about ten percent in their grades. They spent almost twice the amount of time on materials from in class and reading materials I gave online. There was a quiz in which I gave them two hours to do. I would not have ever taken that kind of time in class.

 

[Havensdad]

Is the pastor in your church heeding the advice given in Exodus 18:17-27: If he is, then he is doing his job in leading. That means not everyone will be coddled by him and have access to him. I have found the troublemakers wanted my time a lot. Whereas those those who wanted to grow wanted my help in helping them to learn to disciple others. By training leaders it got away from a pastor centered environment and placed the ministry among the congregation. Even leaders in business will not be successful if they try to everything. Many of them lose their marriages while good workers leave. If a church expects to grow then God's work should be spread across the congregation.

One thing I have noticed is that typically those who went to large high schools do not have the same expectation of pastors as those who went to small high schools.

I taught in a high school that would considered large by most. In a picture of one of the classes in Los Angeles some us counted at least 100 students in one class. Smaller classes do not always make better students. discipline is what counts not less bodies. Smaller classes assumes that the teacher does all the teaching. When I taught I utilized some of my top students to help in one class. They learned a lot because they showed students how to do work they already learned. They also did many of the same things I did. One example would be sharpening tools. They learned how to sharpen tools well because they had to sharpen a lot of them for beginners.

In fact when I taught at the university I began using online education in conjunction with in class lectures. I found that the students gained an average of about ten percent in their grades. They spent almost twice the amount of time on materials from in class and reading materials I gave online. There was a quiz in which I gave them two hours to do. I would not have ever taken that kind of time in class.

They need a "like" button on here...

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No doubt. But do you know how many times I have heard one of my older mentors (pastors and ex pastors), talk about the last generation "sacrificing the family on the altar of ministry?" The divorce rate among pastors was, I believe, higher than the national average!

The pastor is NOT a businessman, and church members are not customers that we have to chase around and "re-sell" on our product.

Further, there is a reason the church has two offices.

Well my son......tell me, did you get this insight from your seminary or is it through observation? Sometime tells me the latter.

 

[gb93433]

No doubt. But do you know how many times I have heard one of my older mentors (pastors and ex pastors), talk about the last generation "sacrificing the family on the altar of ministry?" The divorce rate among pastors was, I believe, higher than the national average!

The pastor is NOT a businessman, and church members are not customers that we have to chase around and "re-sell" on our product.

Further, there is a reason the church has two offices.

You are absolutely right. On old pastor told me that by visiting everyone and doing so much that was job security. Unfortunately the denomination praised him for all he did. Not one of his children were even going to church in their 30's. While he was a nice man and do anything for anyone he was neglecting the church he was suppose top be pastoring.

I have pastored several dying churches and everyone of them had the same basic problems. For them to be turned around they needed to assume for responsibility for their condition. None of them were tired from doing excessive ministry. Not one of them ever assumed responsibility for their condition at first. Only those who grew were those who accepted responsibility for their actions. Everyone of them thought the solution was in me when the real solution was in them. At first they did not like hearing the truth. I told one of them after being there for one year that I would leave if they did not get busy. When they got busy they also started praying and God blessed them way beyond their dreams. Today they own 20 acres and doing well. One church died in 3 months after I resigned. They would not deal with their issues.

 

[following-Him]

Here in the UK I would tend to think that some of the Bible colleges are at fault to a degree. We were told of one pastor who said he was not a pastor but an administrator!! It is very difficult finding a good Bible based Baptist church here, which is why we haven't been to church in ages.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I would accept an invitation to visit a member's house, but not on a regular basis.

Most younger folks today value their privacy at home, even if they spill the beans about the rest of their lives online.

Older folks cherish pastoral visits, but it is often difficult to schedule them because older folks are much more active nowadays. In the past, folks tended to stay at home more when they were off work. Now, there's the mall, restaurants, cruises, etc. My dad and mom are in their late 70's and they are usually only home at night and weekend afternoons.

 

[Havensdad]

Well my son......tell me, did you get this insight from your seminary or is it through observation? Sometime tells me the latter.

Actually...from the Bible. At the beginning of my ministry, i deigned that I was going to ignore "conventional wisdoms" and look in the Bible for the responsibilities of my office. (It certainly wasn't from Seminary...if you listen to them, you'd think we were vacuum cleaner salesmen!)

 

[Revmitchell]

.if you listen to them, you'd think we were vacuum cleaner salesmen!)

Interesting, which professors presented it that way?

 

[JonC]

I have experienced the same. I recall how difficult it was to make “an appointment” to speak with a pastor last year. We met, but issue was never resolved as the pastor never got back with me. I’d call back – but it seemed such a distraction for him to speak with me last year. This particular pastor is a very good preacher. But I think that very few in the church would ever get to know him enough to call him “friend” or have dinner with him.

Now, this is a large church – so I understand if he feels he cannot be a “pastor” in the sense of “shepherding” the church (he doesn’t know the “flock”) and I suppose this leaves him as a “pastor” over the direction of the church. It’s been difficult for me because the last two pastor were involved in the lives of their members.

So my initial response would be that the newer generation of leadership (in a large church setting anyway) has adopted a business model for ‘doing church’ (Senior Pastor is the CEO with sub-pastors being the department heads and points of contact for issues within their area of responsibility). Most likely, however, that is over critical of me.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Actually...from the Bible. At the beginning of my ministry, i deigned that I was going to ignore "conventional wisdoms" and look in the Bible for the responsibilities of my office. (It certainly wasn't from Seminary...if you listen to them, you'd think we were vacuum cleaner salesmen!)

Lol...good.
I pray God blesses your ministry then.

 

[saturneptune]

This is just an observation from working closely with pastors over the years, because I do not have the temperament nor the calling to be one. First of all, I do not see how visiting or not visiting a missing member is a factor of age. Also, what does seminary have to do with the subject? Doesn't that fall into the category of common sense? A pastor should know his members well enough to know if missing one Sunday is a common event or not. Maybe it would be more prudent to wait a Sunday before contacting them. I mean, honestly, is there a pastor out there ringing the phone at 12:01 after the first missed Sunday? Does not the pastor have deacons?

Knowing my people, if I sense there is something wrong, yes, some type of contact should be made. If I sense that they stayed out on Saturday night too late, or are watching a football be carried down a field, then no, no contact, especially the first Sunday. I agree with Haven on that point. Each member knows his or her responsibilities to the local church, is an adult, and has a brain.

My question is, these people missing this or that Sunday, what have they done for the ministry of the Lord besides sit their carcass on the pew for one hour? How often do they minister to others?

 

[padredurand]

Each member knows his or her responsibilities to the local church, is an adult, and has a brain.

My question is, these people missing this or that Sunday, what have they done for the ministry of the Lord besides sit their carcass on the pew for one hour? How often do they minister to others?

:thumbsup:

Church attendance ain't rocket science. If the sign says service are Sunday morning at 10:00 am then a responsible Christian person should be there ready to worship. If I have to come banging at your door, stroke your ego and beg you to come to service then it is time for you to consider another church. You are not needed here.