whats your difference

[MB]

Hi Rippon;

I guess the non-Calvinists/Arminianistics are very humble in not wanting to be associated with the likes of Dave Hunt , Adrian Rogers , Norm Geisler , Ergun Caner , Charles Stanley & co.

I like most of these but I don't follow any of them. I just don't follow men. Calvinist follow their preachers. They are always quoting men like Spurgeon and boasting what a wonderful preacher He was. He may have been but His glory isn't important to Christianity. The only one important is Christ not some servant. What greatness any man has in preaching the gospel isn't his own. So why focus on the beliefs of men when Christ told us the truth to begin with. Besides Spurgeon nor those you've mentioned wrote the gospels. So why focus on the opinions of men about the truth why not just focus on the truth. There are many more thing to be revealed from scripture than what any of these have showed me.
MB

 

[johnp.]

Hello donnA.

I believe in the five points of Calvinism.

Total depravity is a total inability to please God coupled with a complete hatred of Him.
That I was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world and as one of the elect I was replaced in my position as condemned by my Substitute Jesus who gave a sufficient payment for my debt. I now owe God nothing but a debt of gratitude.

God accepted the payment given on my behalf by Jesus Christ and since some men go to Hell then His sacrifice was never intended to pay the debt of all men but just those chosen to benefit from it. It was though sufficient to pay for the sins of a whole universe of men had it been intended to do so.

Regeneration of those chosen takes place regardless of those one's emnity to Him and since the debt paid the whole of my sin's wages I am free from any charge ever being brought against me for anything I do.
In regeneration I received a new nature that is in continual conflict with my old nature. Although my new nature hates the old the old still has much power and continues to have it's own way in all the things I do. I live in a continuous failure to do the things I want and not to be like I am. My failures have been paid for by Christ on the cross and have been forgotten by God, I am what I am by the grace of God.

I also believe that God's Sovereignty is absolute. Not a hair falls to the shoulders nor a sock misplaced but God controlled all events of history in bringing that about.

God brought about sin and is the immediate cause of it and holds us responsible for it. This is a thing considered unjust by men but nevertheless it is not unjust to God. Condemnation was brought on the whole race by one man leaving us all in a state of death and decay. Since God caused Adam to sin then He can be said to have authored it, He wrote it into His plan but we take blame for it.

VI. Of the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation.
Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical Books of the Old and New Testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church. (39 Articles.)

How's that?

john.

 

[Gershom]

It all hinges on Total Depravity; are we dead in sin, or not?

If so, you have to be a Predestinarian, later referred to mistakenly as a Calvinist.
If you are such, to be consistent, you must be a 5 pointer. Even if you're the opposite, to be consistent, you have to be a 5 point Arminian.

The Lord is the author of sin, obviously. Sounds bad at first, but, if God is sovereign, then He is sovereign in all things.

Cheers!

PS to MB: My doctrine also comes from the Bible. This is kind of like saying,
"we believe in the whole Bible", etc. Means nothing actually.

:laugh: A Virginian saying "Cheers!" hehehe.....

 

[Gershom]

MB,

All excellent posts thus far. :jesus::thumbs:

 

[npetreley]

I believe in the 5 points of Calvinism. I have not read Calvin (maybe bits and pieces, but his stuff bores me too much to keep my interest).

I believe that according to man's limited perspective and perception, we have our own wills and we act according to our strongest inclination. But I also believe that absolutely nothing happens apart from God's will, as the Bible clearly says in so many places. Any tension between the two is illusory.

I believe God cannot possibly sin because sin is disobedience to God, and God cannot disobey Himself. I believe God cannot lie, because God is truth, and nothing He says could contradict Himself.

However, I also believe God is the deliberate first cause of the fact that creatures rebel against Him and sin. I believe God deliberately worked sin into creation so that we on whom He has chosen to have mercy would know Him more fully, seeing His righteousness, His mercy, His longsuffering, His love, and so many more of His attributes we would never know without the presence of sin and the well-deserved punishment for it. That is at least one reason why "God has made all things for Himself, yes even the wicked for the day of destruction."

Finally, I find the total Sovereignty of God to be the very foundation upon which I have peace. Anything else is more or less open theism, and carries with it no firm foundation upon which we can rest.

 

[donnA]

john you did good

 

[donnA]

Calvinist follow their preachers.

Which preacher would that be, sinse I learned the doctrines called calvinism from scripture, as I ahve had to say many times now, I didn't know calvinism exsisted until later after I had already discovered it in scripture.
So, now your against anyone quoting someone else? I think most people, or at least me, will sometimes quote others becasue they have already said in a decent order what it si we beleive. Isn't that why you quote people? But if we aren't supose to quote others, I'll remember that.
Hope you do.

 

[drfuss]

DonnA writes:
"Which preacher would that be, sinse I learned the doctrines called calvinism from scripture, as I ahve had to say many times now, I didn't know calvinism exsisted until later after I had already discovered it in scripture."

I learned my belief from scripture with no help from a preacher or a Bible study program. It was only recently that I found out that I believe what Arminius actually believed. The problem was I had accepted the Calvinistic definition of Arminian which to them means anything that wasn't Calvinist.

As I have said before, dividing Christians into either Calvinist or Arminians makes no sense.

 

[webdog]

Which preacher would that be, sinse I learned the doctrines called calvinism from scripture, as I ahve had to say many times now, I didn't know calvinism exsisted until later after I had already discovered it in scripture.

You were saved as a calvinist? When you were saved you immediately assumed God had chosen you for salvation, and that the faith you were putting in Christ was given to you to use? You felt the regeneration prior to faith in Christ, and knew you were already born again prior? Wow, talk about supernatural!

 

[drfuss]

DonnA writes:
"Which preacher would that be, sinse I learned the doctrines called calvinism from scripture, as I ahve had to say many times now, I didn't know calvinism exsisted until later after I had already discovered it in scripture."

I learned my belief from scripture with no help from a preacher or a Bible study program. It was only recently that I found out that I believe what Arminius actually believed. The problem was I had accepted the Calvinistic definition of Arminian which to them means anything that wasn't Calvinist.

As I have said before, dividing Christians into either Calvinist or Arminians makes no sense.

Just wanted to add that (as far as I know) I have never belonged to or even attended a church that believed as Arminius did. I have never attended a Free-will Baptist Church. I was saved in a Wesleyan/Holiness belief type church.

 

[donnA]

You were saved as a calvinist? When you were saved you immediately assumed God had chosen you for salvation, and that the faith you were putting in Christ was given to you to use? You felt the regeneration prior to faith in Christ, and knew you were already born again prior? Wow, talk about supernatural!

wow, talk about ridiculous.
Most new borns don't know how they got born. they learn later. I happen to learn from the bible.

 

[webdog]

Don't find it ironic that noone is saved a calvinist?
You had absolutely no outside influence in regards to calvinism? No pastor? Friend? All 5 points of TULIP just flew off the pages of the Bible?

 

[donnA]

You can't be calvinist, or arminian or whatever you want to call yourself, until after salvation. Until then your just pagan.

 

[webdog]

I'm talking about after salvation.

 

[npetreley]

Don't find it ironic that noone is saved a calvinist?
You had absolutely no outside influence in regards to calvinism? No pastor? Friend? All 5 points of TULIP just flew off the pages of the Bible?

How do you know nobody believes in what we call calvinisim when they are saved?

Yes, all 5 points of TULIP flew off the pages of the Bible for me. I admit I was a free-willer at first, but the more I read the Bible, the more I thought "but that's not what the Bible says" when I listened to preaching. It took a bold statement from a TV preacher to motivate me to look into the issue, but I had already been primed by the Bible itself.

 

[Andy T.]

Don't find it ironic that noone is saved a calvinist?
You had absolutely no outside influence in regards to calvinism? No pastor? Friend? All 5 points of TULIP just flew off the pages of the Bible?

I know many people when they were saved did not (or never considered to) believe their salvation was eternally secure, but they came to believe that doctrine after studying the Bible and listening to solid teaching concerning the matter. That must make the doctrine of eternal security a false doctrine under your faulty logic displayed here.

 

[webdog]

I admit I was a free-willer at first, but the more I read the Bible, the more I thought "but that's not what the Bible says" when I listened to preaching. It took a bold statement from a TV preacher to motivate me to look into the issue, but I had already been primed by the Bible itself.

but they came to believe that doctrine after studying the Bible and listening to solid teaching concerning the matter.

I rest my case...

 

[donnA]

I'm talking about after salvation.

after salvation, you read and study, and learn slowly, just like any baby does, learn slowly, and go forward, maturing.

 

[webdog]

after salvation, you read and study, and learn slowly, just like any baby does, learn slowly, and go forward, maturing.

I realize that, but if calvinism is immutable truth, why does it take outside influences to reveal this...and not the Holy Spirit? Why do believers start off, and the majority remain non cal's? Does the Holy Spirit play favorites amongst believers?

 

[donnA]

How do you know nobody believes in what we call calvinisim when they are saved?

Yes, all 5 points of TULIP flew off the pages of the Bible for me. I admit I was a free-willer at first, but the more I read the Bible, the more I thought "but that's not what the Bible says" when I listened to preaching. It took a bold statement from a TV preacher to motivate me to look into the issue, but I had already been primed by the Bible itself.

When I was saved and started reading the bible, I found that a lot, stuff I had beleived that simply was not true. You have to sacrifice what you always thought and beleived for truth sometimes.