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What's your view of music
- Thread starter Jordan Kurecki
- Start date
In some of the countries I have been in (in Asia), they like to sing through the Psalms. Most of them are put to music. One sacred hymn sung as a hymn, is Psalm 150. Although they don't know it, the tune is "O My Darling Clementine." "Found a Peanut," if you know it that way. That is totally secular to us; totally sacred to them.
Perhaps some missionary used the tune decades ago (or much longer than that), but there is no association to anything secular in their minds. If they hear the tune being played on an instrument, the words of the 150th psalm will go through their minds.
So is it sacred or secular?
Perhaps some missionary used the tune decades ago (or much longer than that), but there is no association to anything secular in their minds. If they hear the tune being played on an instrument, the words of the 150th psalm will go through their minds.
So is it sacred or secular?
Jordan,
Here are what the words in question mean – by definition and in context of music.
[1] “psalms” - ψαλμός [psalmos – “psäl-mo's”] – “a striking or twanging or twitching of fingers on a stringed instrument”. So this would be songs sang with stringed instruments. Could be a piano, guitar, violin (fiddle), banjo, harp, and more.
[2] “hymns” - ὕμνος [hymnos – “hü'm-nos”] – “a sacred song of praise (celebration) to God, heroes, and conquerors” These could be songs from modern hymnbooks, such as “A Might Fortress is Our God”, but the style of modern hymns – with two lines of verse and a refrain is not what this is talking about. No style is given in the definition. Also, after the Last Supper, Jesus and the disciples sang a “hymn” together. They didn’t sing “Amazing Grace” or “The Old Rugged Cross” even though I love those songs.
[3] “spiritual songs” - πνευματικός ᾠδή [ pneumatikos ōdē – “pnyü-mä-tē-ko's ō-dā' ”] – “songs that reveal (via the Holy Spirit) and are harmonious with the character of God.” These songs can be more spontaneous and can be God revealing something through the singer.
I do not believe that Paul is giving an exhaustive list, here, but I feel he is showing a distinction between songs TO God and about His greatness and songs that God, Himself, is directing through the singer for the edification of the hearers.
There is absolutely nothing in this list that denotes a “style” of music or how melodies/instruments are to be sung/played.
Here are what the words in question mean – by definition and in context of music.
[1] “psalms” - ψαλμός [psalmos – “psäl-mo's”] – “a striking or twanging or twitching of fingers on a stringed instrument”. So this would be songs sang with stringed instruments. Could be a piano, guitar, violin (fiddle), banjo, harp, and more.
[2] “hymns” - ὕμνος [hymnos – “hü'm-nos”] – “a sacred song of praise (celebration) to God, heroes, and conquerors” These could be songs from modern hymnbooks, such as “A Might Fortress is Our God”, but the style of modern hymns – with two lines of verse and a refrain is not what this is talking about. No style is given in the definition. Also, after the Last Supper, Jesus and the disciples sang a “hymn” together. They didn’t sing “Amazing Grace” or “The Old Rugged Cross” even though I love those songs.
[3] “spiritual songs” - πνευματικός ᾠδή [ pneumatikos ōdē – “pnyü-mä-tē-ko's ō-dā' ”] – “songs that reveal (via the Holy Spirit) and are harmonious with the character of God.” These songs can be more spontaneous and can be God revealing something through the singer.
I do not believe that Paul is giving an exhaustive list, here, but I feel he is showing a distinction between songs TO God and about His greatness and songs that God, Himself, is directing through the singer for the edification of the hearers.
There is absolutely nothing in this list that denotes a “style” of music or how melodies/instruments are to be sung/played.
from wayoflife.org:
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY IS IT THAT THE MOVIE “TEXT PAINTER” CAN USE DIFFERENT STYLES OF MUSIC TO CREATE DIFFERENT EMOTIONS? This can be illustrated by the old silent movies. There were no words to the movies except the text shown on the screen, but the musicians (sometimes a lone pianist or organist; sometimes an orchestra) could create feelings of fear, haste, happiness, sorrow, romance, anger, indignation, tension, uncertainty, merely by changing the style of music. If there was a scene with the bad guy slowly sneaking up on the unsuspecting, sleeping heroin, the music would be tense and gloomy. If upbeat classical or peppy march music were put to that type of scene, the movie would be like a comedy, because the acting would be saying one thing and the music would be saying something different. The movie text painter can create different emotions with different styles of music for the simple reason that music is NOT neutral.
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY CAN AN ORCHESTRA CREATE DIFFERENT FEELINGS BY CHANGING THE STYLE OF THE MUSIC? Orchestral music ordinarily doesn’t have words; it is strictly music; but anyone who knows the power of music can testify that each style of music played by the orchestra creates different feelings and thoughts in the listeners. Put a different way, if all musical styles are neutral, why does a military march never sound like a romance ballad or a baby lullaby sound like a punk rock concert? The reason is that music is not neutral; music is a language.
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO TAVERNS AND NIGHT CLUBS ALWAYS PLAY A CERTAIN KIND OF MUSIC? The reason this is the case is because music is not neutral, and taverns and bars play a kind of music that fits the lifestyle of that setting. Music is a language.
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE OLD BLUESMEN BELIEVE THAT CERTAIN KINDS OF RHYTHMS CAUSED WOMEN TO BE MORALLY LOOSE? For example, Professor Longhair’s boogie-woogie piano music is said to have caused women to “jump and wriggle” in a lascivious manner. Robert Johnson, one of the pioneering bluesmen who died young because of his womanizing, said of his blues rhythms: “This sound affected most women in a way that I could never understand.” B.B. King, one of the biggest living names in the blues, said in his autobiography, “The women reacted with their bodies flowing to a rhythm coming out of my guitar…” Those are powerful statements about the effect of a specific kind of music and rhythm. Were the bluesmen confused about their music? No, music is not neutral; music is a language.
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO ROCK MUSICIANS CLAIM THAT THEIR HEAVILY SYNCOPATED RHYTHM IS SEXY?
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY IS IT THAT THE MOVIE “TEXT PAINTER” CAN USE DIFFERENT STYLES OF MUSIC TO CREATE DIFFERENT EMOTIONS? This can be illustrated by the old silent movies. There were no words to the movies except the text shown on the screen, but the musicians (sometimes a lone pianist or organist; sometimes an orchestra) could create feelings of fear, haste, happiness, sorrow, romance, anger, indignation, tension, uncertainty, merely by changing the style of music. If there was a scene with the bad guy slowly sneaking up on the unsuspecting, sleeping heroin, the music would be tense and gloomy. If upbeat classical or peppy march music were put to that type of scene, the movie would be like a comedy, because the acting would be saying one thing and the music would be saying something different. The movie text painter can create different emotions with different styles of music for the simple reason that music is NOT neutral.
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY CAN AN ORCHESTRA CREATE DIFFERENT FEELINGS BY CHANGING THE STYLE OF THE MUSIC? Orchestral music ordinarily doesn’t have words; it is strictly music; but anyone who knows the power of music can testify that each style of music played by the orchestra creates different feelings and thoughts in the listeners. Put a different way, if all musical styles are neutral, why does a military march never sound like a romance ballad or a baby lullaby sound like a punk rock concert? The reason is that music is not neutral; music is a language.
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO TAVERNS AND NIGHT CLUBS ALWAYS PLAY A CERTAIN KIND OF MUSIC? The reason this is the case is because music is not neutral, and taverns and bars play a kind of music that fits the lifestyle of that setting. Music is a language.
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE OLD BLUESMEN BELIEVE THAT CERTAIN KINDS OF RHYTHMS CAUSED WOMEN TO BE MORALLY LOOSE? For example, Professor Longhair’s boogie-woogie piano music is said to have caused women to “jump and wriggle” in a lascivious manner. Robert Johnson, one of the pioneering bluesmen who died young because of his womanizing, said of his blues rhythms: “This sound affected most women in a way that I could never understand.” B.B. King, one of the biggest living names in the blues, said in his autobiography, “The women reacted with their bodies flowing to a rhythm coming out of my guitar…” Those are powerful statements about the effect of a specific kind of music and rhythm. Were the bluesmen confused about their music? No, music is not neutral; music is a language.
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO ROCK MUSICIANS CLAIM THAT THEIR HEAVILY SYNCOPATED RHYTHM IS SEXY?
Heres more:
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DOES THE BIBLE SPECIFY THAT BELIEVERS SHOULD SING A CERTAIN KIND OF MUSIC? “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord” (Ephesians 5:19). The word “spiritual” means set apart for God, different from the things of the world. A tavern or nightclub owner would never play sacred psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs over the music system, even if the words were not included. It would create the wrong atmosphere. Why, then, should believers borrow the music that tavern owners use to entertain and lull or stir the drinking crowd to their lascivious pleasures?
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY WOULD A VOODOO PRIESTESS SAY THAT HER GODS RESPOND TO CERTAIN RHYTHMS? Consider this quote carefully: “The rhythm is more important than the meaning of the words. Our gods respond to rhythm above all else” (a Macumba priestess in Brazil, quoted in African Rhythm & Sensibility). The voodoo priestess says this because she knows that music is not neutral and that certain rhythms interact with the spirit world. What a loud warning to those who have ears to hear!
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO CHILDREN REACT DIFFERENTLY TO VARIOUS KINDS OF MUSIC? After visiting a church while on vacation, one of my readers submitted the following, “Why did my children behave properly during the traditional morning service, but jump around like they had ‘ants in their pants’ for 45 minutes during the loud rockish night service at a church we were visiting?”
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DOES THE BIBLE SPECIFY THAT BELIEVERS SHOULD SING A CERTAIN KIND OF MUSIC? “Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord” (Ephesians 5:19). The word “spiritual” means set apart for God, different from the things of the world. A tavern or nightclub owner would never play sacred psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs over the music system, even if the words were not included. It would create the wrong atmosphere. Why, then, should believers borrow the music that tavern owners use to entertain and lull or stir the drinking crowd to their lascivious pleasures?
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY WOULD A VOODOO PRIESTESS SAY THAT HER GODS RESPOND TO CERTAIN RHYTHMS? Consider this quote carefully: “The rhythm is more important than the meaning of the words. Our gods respond to rhythm above all else” (a Macumba priestess in Brazil, quoted in African Rhythm & Sensibility). The voodoo priestess says this because she knows that music is not neutral and that certain rhythms interact with the spirit world. What a loud warning to those who have ears to hear!
If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO CHILDREN REACT DIFFERENTLY TO VARIOUS KINDS OF MUSIC? After visiting a church while on vacation, one of my readers submitted the following, “Why did my children behave properly during the traditional morning service, but jump around like they had ‘ants in their pants’ for 45 minutes during the loud rockish night service at a church we were visiting?”
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Grand. But that doesn't answer any of the questions about your statement that all secular music is worldly. Do you still stand by that?
Plus, the article doesn't address what the Bible says about style. Why? Because the Bible doesn't address style. It is all opinion.
I don't think anyone has said that all music is the same.
Plus, the article doesn't address what the Bible says about style. Why? Because the Bible doesn't address style. It is all opinion.
I don't think anyone has said that all music is the same.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jordan, this quote from your article is not true.
The Bible does NOT say that believers should sing a certain kind of "MUSIC".
It says that they should sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs (words) while together.
That's NOT "kinds of music". Or "styles of music".
Back up three or four posts to where I showed you this.
The Bible does NOT say that believers should sing a certain kind of "MUSIC".
It says that they should sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs (words) while together.
That's NOT "kinds of music". Or "styles of music".
Back up three or four posts to where I showed you this.
evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
Jordan,
After getting away from the computer and having some time to think and pray, I am truly sorry for my attitude today. I hope you don't think that is typical of me.
I did mention before that for me this isn't a subject where I can as easily detach all my emotions as I can other subjects. (There are other subjects where I have to watch myself, too.) Even so, such an outburst is rare and embarrassing.
I hold a number of opinions you most likely wouldn't approve of, and they are not limited to what music I listen to. (Though my doctrinal base is probably similar enough to yours'.) If you feel like I'm someone you shouldn't associate with, feel free to stop having anything to do with me. I don't want to cut off fellowship with you, but if that's what is best for you, go ahead and do it.
I'm sorry if I've offended you, that was never my intention.
Here's something I wrote a few months ago after a brother rebuked me for something I said about a controversial subject:
http://colliequest.deviantart.com/journal/Devious-Journal-Entry-433048203
Some of it is applicable here.
That is all. May God bless you.
P.S.
If you find some of my opinions to be proof of the "slippery slope" argument, please consider that there are many, many Christians who listen to CCM and even secular music that would strongly disagree with me on those subjects. The brother who rebuked me was one of them.
After getting away from the computer and having some time to think and pray, I am truly sorry for my attitude today. I hope you don't think that is typical of me.
I did mention before that for me this isn't a subject where I can as easily detach all my emotions as I can other subjects. (There are other subjects where I have to watch myself, too.) Even so, such an outburst is rare and embarrassing.
I hold a number of opinions you most likely wouldn't approve of, and they are not limited to what music I listen to. (Though my doctrinal base is probably similar enough to yours'.) If you feel like I'm someone you shouldn't associate with, feel free to stop having anything to do with me. I don't want to cut off fellowship with you, but if that's what is best for you, go ahead and do it.
I'm sorry if I've offended you, that was never my intention.
Here's something I wrote a few months ago after a brother rebuked me for something I said about a controversial subject:
http://colliequest.deviantart.com/journal/Devious-Journal-Entry-433048203
Some of it is applicable here.
That is all. May God bless you.
P.S.
If you find some of my opinions to be proof of the "slippery slope" argument, please consider that there are many, many Christians who listen to CCM and even secular music that would strongly disagree with me on those subjects. The brother who rebuked me was one of them.
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Music is not something I break fellowship over.
They're not neutral. Music is emotional. I don't think anyone is saying that music does not elicit a response.
This sort of argument is called innuendo and asking leading questions. It is designed to reinforce prejudices already present in a person's mind without actually stating a case or making a statement.
But you all have been basically saying that musical styles are neutral and amoral, you all claim it's only the words that matter.
is musical style neutral?
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I think this nails it. I don't like most rock music and don't like a loud heavy beat in church, but I can't claim it is immoral or that it stirs up rebellion or sensuality. I have never been driven to those thoughts my music - I just don't like the noise.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
Anything can work.
Is bluegrass bad? Lots of people drink beer and whiskey while listening.
Classical? More than one person had a half bottle of wine or more while listening to it.
Bob Marley must be the most evil music in the world.
David himself got caught up in some music, probably including a drum line, and danced around like a half naked wild man. Not a word was said about it, other than from Michal, and for doing so she was punished by being childless for the rest of her life.