When Abel was killed was he in Abraham bosom/side (paradise) by himself?

[Van]

Christ said that He would meet that thief on the cross in paradise that very day.

"And Jesus said to him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise'" (Luke 23:43, NET).​

We know from Psalm 16 and Acts 2, that Christ was going to Sheol.

"You will not abandon me to Sheol; you will not allow your faithful follower to see the Pit" (NET).​

Peter quotes Psalm 16:10 as referring to Christ's descent into Sheol. We know from Peter's words in Acts 2, that Sheol is the equivalent of the Greek place Hades.

"But God raised [Jesus] up, having released him from the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power. For David says about him, ‘I saw the Lord always in front of me, for he is at my right hand so that I will not be shaken. Therefore my heart was glad and my tongue rejoiced; my body also will live in hope, because you will not leave my soul in Hades, nor permit your Holy One to experience decay" (Acts 2:24-27, NET).
​

Therefore, Paradise was in Hades or Sheol. Christ descended to Hades or Sheol and told the thief that He would meet him that very day in Hades or Sheol, in Paradise. Paradise must therefore have been in Hades or Sheol. But we know from 2 Corinthians 12 that Paradise is now in a different place, the third heaven.

First, Abel died before Christ died and ascended with the thief to Paradise. John 3:13 precludes Abel from having ascended, before Christ.

Second David did not go to Paradise, which is the third Heaven, again because John 3:13 precludes it.

No passage of scripture says or implies that Paradise is in Hades.

No passage of scripture says or implies that Paradise was in Hades before Christ.

The assertion that anyone ascended to Paradise/Heaven before Christ is fake theology.

 

[Jope]

First, Abel died before Christ died and ascended with the thief to Paradise. John 3:13 precludes Abel from having ascended, before Christ.

Second David did not go to Paradise, which is the third Heaven, again because John 3:13 precludes it.

No passage of scripture says or implies that Paradise is in Hades.

No passage of scripture says or implies that Paradise was in Hades before Christ.

The assertion that anyone ascended to Paradise/Heaven before Christ is fake theology.

Lol. Christ DESCENDED to Sheol. Christ met the thief in paradise in Sheol. Is Luke 23:43 in your Bible?


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[Van]

Luke 23:43 does not say Paradise is in Hades/Sheol. Paradise is the third Heaven, the abode of God.
Scripture does not say Jesus took the thief to Hades/Sheol, and then ascended spiritually to Heaven.

 

[Jope]

Luke 23:43 does not say Paradise is in Hades/Sheol. Paradise is the third Heaven, the abode of God.
Scripture does not say Jesus took the thief to Hades/Sheol, and then ascended spiritually to Heaven.

If you took the time to listen to people you would have found out how I just explained FROM SCRIPTURE that paradise was in Hades.

Now, should I also completely ignore what you say in your posts and start posting garbage too?


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[Happy]

First, Abel died before Christ died and ascended with the thief to Paradise. John 3:13 precludes Abel from having ascended, before Christ.

Second David did not go to Paradise, which is the third Heaven, again because John 3:13 precludes it.

No passage of scripture says or implies that Paradise is in Hades.

No passage of scripture says or implies that Paradise was in Hades before Christ.

The assertion that anyone ascended to Paradise/Heaven before Christ is fake theology.

WHAT was murdered BEFORE creation of mankind and BY WHOM?

Answer; The Word of God
Answer; Lucifer

HOW is a "thing", ie Word of God, able to be murdered / killed?

BY any means that makes the Word of God, NOT TRUE.

WHO is it later revealed IS the Word of God?

Answer: Lord Jesus

We know of the history because it is recorded for us to have the knowledge.

Some men were "given" the opportunity to "observe" with their eyes, what had already "occurred" BEFORE mankind was created.

Some men, "as for the past 2,000 + years", are given testimony of what men "observed" by "their" sight.

Isa 14
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Lucifer's LIES against the Word of God.
Lucifer effectively MURDERING the Truth.

^ Effected WHILE the earth was being prepared for mankind, thus BEFORE mankind was created.

John.8

1. [44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Rev 13

[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Lamb of God IS Jesus. How do you say, Jesus DIED "after Abel".....

When He is "BEFORE" ALL THINGS?

Col.1

1. [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Didn't men challenge Jesus, with this similar argument concerning Abraham? And Jesus said to them;

John.8

1. [58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1. 
   
   

 

[JonShaff]

you

Do you believe when Jesus died on the cross, that he went to Abrahams Bosom/Paradise and removed all the old testament saints and took them with Him to heaven? The reason why I ask this question is I've heard people mention that the blood of bulls and goats couldn't get them into heaven. They needed the blood of Jesus to get them to heaven. I don't know how true all this is. Just wanted to hear other opinions on the subject

Yes, i believe that is part of it. The blood "Atoned" or "Covered" their sin and did not completely cleanse it, therefore they were waiting for the one who would make them "Clean" and bring them into the Heavenly Tabernacle, Thank you Jesus! The WAY!

 

[Happy]

you

Do you believe when Jesus died on the cross, that he went to Abrahams Bosom/Paradise and removed all the old testament saints and took them with Him to heaven? The reason why I ask this question is I've heard people mention that the blood of bulls and goats couldn't get them into heaven. They needed the blood of Jesus to get them to heaven. I don't know how true all this is. Just wanted to hear other opinions on the subject

Yes. Jesus body died, and was buried. His soul went to Hell and preached.

Jesus' blood is pure, and was given for the purpose of mankinds forgiveness. ie under the new covenant.

Sacrificed animals blood, in prior times, was sufficient for them, as effected according to protocol.
Animals do not sin. The requirement was for the animal to be without blemish, ie pure. According to the protocol...a clean animal, certain age, without having sired or given birth, etc. Certain conditions, thus their blood was sufficient according to the covenant made with men, obviously with less history and experience and knowledge, then men under the new covenant.

(In the same respect, we do not give the same knowledge to a baby as is given to adults. Nor is the wisdom and understanding the same.) Once mankind was given knowledge of Christ Jesus manifestation on earth, the old WAY became obsolete, just as you no longer follow the rules and way, as when you were a baby/child.

 

[Tim71]

Yes. Jesus body died, and was buried. His soul went to Hell and preached.

Jesus' blood is pure, and was given for the purpose of mankinds forgiveness. ie under the new covenant.

Sacrificed animals blood, in prior times, was sufficient for them, as effected according to protocol.
Animals do not sin. The requirement was for the animal to be without blemish, ie pure. According to the protocol...a clean animal, certain age, without having sired or given birth, etc. Certain conditions, thus their blood was sufficient according to the covenant made with men, obviously with less history and experience and knowledge, then men under the new covenant.

(In the same respect, we do not give the same knowledge to a baby as is given to adults. Nor is the wisdom and understanding the same.) Once mankind was given knowledge of Christ Jesus manifestation on earth, the old WAY became obsolete, just as you no longer follow the rules and way, as when you were a baby/child.

Happy if you have time. Listen to this sermon and tell me what you think of it

http://fundamentalbaptistsermons.net/Audio/KiddPhilWhereIsTheBloodOfJesus.mp3

 

[Happy]

Happy if you have time. Listen to this sermon and tell me what you think of it

http://fundamentalbaptistsermons.net/Audio/KiddPhilWhereIsTheBloodOfJesus.mp3

Okie dokie I will try to ~ multitasking today

 

[Van]

If you took the time to listen to people you would have found out how I just explained FROM SCRIPTURE that paradise was in Hades.

Now, should I also completely ignore what you say in your posts and start posting garbage too?

You can continue to offer the logical fallacy of ad homenim, if such behavior flips your switch.

No verse or passage says or suggests that Paradise was ever located in Hades/Sheol. But 2 Cor. 12:2-4 indicates Paradise/Third Heaven are located above and are the abode of God.

 

[Jope]

You can continue to offer the logical fallacy of ad homenim, if such behavior flips your switch.

You've got an UNBELIEVABLY touchy ego eh? I can't call you lazy after you tell me to "do my homework", I can't tell you that your posts are garbage after you tell me I have fake theology..etc. Get your touchiness checked out or something


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[Happy]

Happy if you have time. Listen to this sermon and tell me what you think of it

http://fundamentalbaptistsermons.net/Audio/KiddPhilWhereIsTheBloodOfJesus.mp3

Blood "special" ? yes.
Blood "important" ? yes, very.
In Heaven? uh, not sure what that matters.
Some things I agree,
However, I am not much on listening to preachers.

 

[Tim71]

Blood "special" ? yes.
Blood "important" ? yes, very.
In Heaven? uh, not sure what that matters.
Some things I agree,
However, I am not much on listening to preachers.

Thanks Happy. I thought Phil Kidd gave a pretty good illustration on the Blood and how it ties in with Abrahams Bosom.
Do you attend Church?

 

[Happy]

Thanks Happy. I thought Phil Kidd gave a pretty good illustration on the Blood and how it ties in with Abrahams Bosom.
Do you attend Church?

Christ's church within me, everyday.

A building "Church"? No.

He did a fine job.

 

[Tim71]

Christ's church within me, everyday.

A building "Church"? No.

Ok. Well we should surround ourselves with other believers. You know we all need each other. You can be a great blessing for someone out there

 

[Happy]

Ok. Well we should surround ourselves with other believers. You know we all need each other. You can be a great blessing for someone out there

My family is believers. And Godly conversation is easy to strike up anywhere, which is what I enjoy.

 

[JonShaff]

Christ's church within me, everyday.

A building "Church"? No.

He did a fine job.

What do you mean the church is within you?

Buildings are a place to "Assemble", the Church is the Assembly that happens to be in a building. Your family meets in a house/building right?

 

[Happy]

What do you mean the church is within you?

Buildings are a place to "Assemble", the Church is the Assembly that happens to be in a building. Your family meets in a house/building right?

Matt 12
[6] But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7] But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

John 2
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Matt.16

1. [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

What rock?

Matt 16

[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

1Cor.6

1. [19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Christ's Church is a membership, of every converted man who has the Holy Spirit within them. Christ's Spirit is the foundation (rock) of the members. Christ's Spirit is the Holy One, forever with the man; the mans Spiritual Teacher and Guide.

That is what I mean. My church is not a building. My church, is Christ Jesus' Church; within me. I require no particular time or place or attire to praise, worship, serve, fellowship or otherwise communicate with the Lord.

 

[JonShaff]

Matt 12
[6] But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7] But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

John 2
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.

Matt.16

1. [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

What rock?

Matt 16

[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

1Cor.6

1. [19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Christ's Church is a membership, of every converted man who has the Holy Spirit within them. Christ's Spirit is the foundation (rock) of the members. Christ's Spirit is the Holy One, forever with the man; the mans Spiritual Teacher and Guide.

That is what I mean. My church is not a building. My church, is Christ Jesus' Church; within me. I require no particular time or place or attire to praise, worship, serve, fellowship or otherwise communicate with the Lord.

i agree with what you assert to a degree. The assembling of God's Church is very important to Him. Ones of the Same Spirit and Like-mindedness. Families fellowshipping with other families. Do you agree?

 

[Happy]

i agree with what you assert to a degree. The assembling of God's Church is very important to Him. Ones of the Same Spirit and Like-mindedness. Families fellowshipping with other families. Do you agree?

I do fellowship with believers, every day. So yes, same Spirit and like-mindedness is important, However I also have ample opportunity to speak with unbelievers and those who have an interest to know "how to" know about God and know God. I have mentored to prisoners and deaf kids, who seem to be two groups I am aware of who are sorely lacking in Biblical knowledge.

As far as "going to a Church building". Bores me silly, and do not like the fashion show, pomp and blah, blah, that does nothing to spark my interest, when I can everyday, any time of day, fellowship with the Lord.
Not unusual to have an evening with an impromptu "church meeting" in my home. The "place" is not important to me.