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When are names written in the Lamb's book of Life?
- Thread starter Van
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KenH
Well-Known Member
Which God has guaranteed will be the case for all those whom He chose before the foundation of the world.
Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
God can do so because salvation is totally based on the free, sovereign grace of God. It has nothing to do with the natural man and his will, or his works, or his actions, or his thoughts, or his intentions.
KenH
Well-Known Member
God chose His elect before the foundation of the world. (Ephesians 1:3-14)
Fallen man has no "free choice". Salvation is not based on natural man and his will, or his works, or his actions, or his thoughts, or his intentions.
God is on the throne. Man is sitting on the throne with God on His knees begging "Oh, please let me save you. Oh, please, please, please."
Away with any thoughts that the creature is superior to his Creator in any way, shape, or form.
Exactly, and this is something that we should all pause and think about.
If we claim that God did not know who would be in the Lamb's book before the foundation of the world, then we are inadvertently putting limits on God's knowledge.
37818
Well-Known Member
Romans 2:1, Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
God can and will keep you from falling but He will not stop you from turning away from Him. One has the free will to trust in God but also the free will to reject Him.
Only God can save and He has chosen to save those that trust in Him. We are saved by the grace of God because we believe in God and trust Him to save those that place their faith in Him.
By your own words you have made God's salvation arbitrary but the bible does not agree with your view does it.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that whoever believes in him will not be destroyed but have eternal life.
Rom 10:13 For, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Rom 10:9 because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Salvation is the gift of God conditioned on our faith in Him.
Rom_10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
1Jn_5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.
God can do so because salvation is totally based on the free, sovereign grace of God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Matthew 1:21 - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Jesus said that He absolutely would do this, that He would save His people from their sins. If God does not cause anyone to believe, then there exists the possibility that Christ might have failed if it depends on every single person's free choice.
If God left every human being alone, then nobody ever would want to be with Him because of their corrupt natures.
Romans 3:11 - there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
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KenH
Well-Known Member
"Most often, adherents to this Catholic system of theology deny vehemently that they teach that their god is a failure. However, occasionally one of their preachers will say in words or substance, "God has done everything He can do to save you. The rest is up to you". Or perhaps their preaching takes the slant that you must "let God" do this or that in your life. If you do not "let God" He cannot accomplish His purpose in your life, according to the god-is-a-failure theory.
As further proof, we quote one prominent "Baptist" (BBF) preacher of some years ago as representative of this Thomist/Arminian view. He wrote, ". . . hell is a ghastly monument to the failure of the Triune God to save the multitudes who are there . . . sinners go to hell because God Almighty couldn't save them! He did all He could. He failed." [Noel Smith, "Universal Atonement," Defender Magazine, Springfield, MO., U.S.A., December, 1956]."
- excerpt from Is God a Failure?
KenH
Well-Known Member
God's elect do not make themselves willing. God makes them willing, gives them the "want to".
Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
KenH
Well-Known Member
God's elect are saved by God's free, sovereign grace. Period. Once a person tries to add anything done by man to God's grace, then he has thrown God's grace out the window and is teaching salvation by the works of man. Salvation is by free grace or free will. Salvation cannot be a combination of both, and neither can it be by free will effort. Therefore, salvation must be by God's free, sovereign grace alone.
Yes, the Bible teaches that salvation is arbitrary in the Old Testament and in the New Testament.
Exodus 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Romans 9:13-18 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Salvation is the gift of God conditioned on Christ alone as the Surety for every person whose sins were imputed to Him, for which He paid their sin debt, and to whom His perfect righteousness is imputed.
Salvation is sure and secure because salvation is wholly and entirely the work of Almighty God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You are just using the Calvinist talking points and ignoring scripture.
By the logic that you have shown then the Jews His people would all be saved. Are they? And further you are making God responsible for all those that are in hell as He could have saved them but chose not to do so.
You are selective in the verses that you choose why do you not include these
Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
Perhaps because they do not fit your narrative. Paul is using hyperbole to make a point with the Jews that he is writing to. They have no reason to think they are better than the Gentiles. All have sinned but as the bible tells us all can freely trust in God for their salvation.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I agree that in the day when Christ reigns on this earth every knee shall bow and confess Him as Lord. Those that have freely trusted, through love and those that have rejected Him, through fear.
Isa 45:22 "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.
"Thus the direction to look to God for salvation implies a deep conviction of helplessness and of sin; and a deep conviction that he only can save. At the same time it shows the ease of salvation. What is more easy than to look to one for help? What more easy than to cast the eyes toward God the Saviour? What more reasonable than that he should require us to do it? And what more just than that God, if people will not look to him in order that they may be saved, should cast them off forever? Assuredly, if a dying, ruined, and helpless sinner will not do so simple a thing as to look to God for salvation, he ought to be excluded from heaven, and the universe will acquiesce in the decision which consigns him to despair." Barnes
"This verse and the following contain a plain prediction of the universal spread of the knowledge of God through Christ; and so the Targum appears to have understood it; see Rom_14:11; Php_2:10. The reading of the Targum is remarkable, viz., אתפנו למימרי ithpeno lemeymri, look to my Word, ὁ Λογος, the Lord Jesus." Clarke
KenH
Well-Known Member
Paul is referring to Jews and Gentiles, not just Jews, as Paul wrote in Romans 3:9 "For we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin."
You have to pretend that man is really not as bad as God says that man is because your idea of salvation is a man-centered salvation.
If you were to admit that we are all vile, wretched sinners than your entire man-centered salvation plan would totally fall apart.
I see the usual rewrite the scripture claimed over and over again, that individuals were chosen before creation for salvation.
Not one of the regurgitations of falsehood even address that scripture absolutely precludes that interpretation. Non one!
Every saved individual once had not received mercy, therefore they were not chosen before their creation, because then they would have always received mercy for conception.
When God chooses an individual to be "His people" they become part of His people, and therefore to be "not a people" requires that sometime during their lifetime, they had not been individually chosen.
It is a lock.
Not one of the regurgitations of falsehood even address that scripture absolutely precludes that interpretation. Non one!
Every saved individual once had not received mercy, therefore they were not chosen before their creation, because then they would have always received mercy for conception.
When God chooses an individual to be "His people" they become part of His people, and therefore to be "not a people" requires that sometime during their lifetime, they had not been individually chosen.
It is a lock.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why do you hyper Cal always conflate free will and works when the bible is clear that they are opposites.
Rom 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Gal 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ,
Christ is the ELECT ONE [Isaiah 42:1] and we are only elect when we are in Him through faith.
KenH
Well-Known Member
God's elect are saved among the Jews, including in the Old Testament.
Romans 9:27-29 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: for he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. And as Esaias said before,
Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Christ will never reign in a physical kingdom on this earth. When Christ returns, this present heavens and earth will immediately go bye-bye.
2 Peter 3:10-13 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes Paul had already shown that Gentiles were sinners Rom 1&2 but in 3 he was speaking to the Jews that thought they were better than the Gentiles.
Man is depraved but man also has the ability to think and make judgements. By your Hyper Cal logic man is unable to do that. So the question you have to answer is why are some condemned as God stated that He wants all to be saved.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Is your god not able to save all those he wants to save? Or was he just being disingenuous.
By the looks of it your version of God is quite a bit less than what we see in scripture.
In Luke 10:20 we are told to rejoice that our names are written or recorded in heaven. In Hebrews 12:23 we have come spiritually to heaven, being "in Christ" and therefore our names have been written or recorded in heaven. Since those "in Christ" belong to Christ, and we have been made alive together with Christ, it follows that our names have been written in the Lamb's book of life.
Hebrews 12:23 appears to answer the question of when because it says we are joining those who have been (past tense) made perfect. Thus our names have been written after we have been made perfect when we were transferred into Christ.
Both Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 imply names are written since the foundation of the world which is the time span from creation to and including the present. These verses exclude having our names written before the foundation of the world, the bogus belief of some based on misinterpreting Ephesians 1:4.
The Lamb's book of life is not the OT book of the living, another bogus belief of some.
One final point, Hebrews 12:22 says those "in Christ" have entered the new Jerusalem or heavenly Jerusalem, and Revelation 21:27 says no one enters the new or heavenly Jerusalem except those who names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
It is a lock.
Hebrews 12:23 appears to answer the question of when because it says we are joining those who have been (past tense) made perfect. Thus our names have been written after we have been made perfect when we were transferred into Christ.
Both Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 imply names are written since the foundation of the world which is the time span from creation to and including the present. These verses exclude having our names written before the foundation of the world, the bogus belief of some based on misinterpreting Ephesians 1:4.
The Lamb's book of life is not the OT book of the living, another bogus belief of some.
One final point, Hebrews 12:22 says those "in Christ" have entered the new Jerusalem or heavenly Jerusalem, and Revelation 21:27 says no one enters the new or heavenly Jerusalem except those who names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
It is a lock.