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When are names written in the Lamb's book of Life?

KenH

Well-Known Member
then deny clear scripture?

I do not deny the Holy Scriptures. You deny the gospel of Christ and His finished work, as you think that Christ is only a partial Savior. You do not believe that Christ is the actual Savior that the Bible clearly teaches. You wrote in your post #121, "No one was saved at the cross"; thus, you are condemned by your own words.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
You write that, yet you believe that God cannot save anyone He chooses, as you falsely believe that, as the saying goes, "God did His part, now you have to do your part", in order to be regenerated.

Man has no part in his regeneration, the new birth, anymore than he had a part in his physical birth. Man does nothing to bring about his physical birth, and man does nothing to bring about his new birth. And without the new birth, no one can have faith in Christ and His finished work, nor repent of dead works.

There you go putting the cart before the horse again. You have someone saved prior to believing. That is a false theology.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

By your posts it is obvious that you have not read these verses or if you have you have ignored them. You are believing Augustine and Calvin etc. rather than the word of God.

I have seen enough of your posts to know that you will not accept the truth of scripture as it does not fit your errant views.

I do feel sorry for you that you are so blinded by the false extra biblical teachers that you trust. You have been misled by those false teachers but it is not to late for you to repent of your error and turn to the God of the bible in faith confessing your sins.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I do not deny the Holy Scriptures. You deny the gospel of Christ and His finished work, as you think that Christ is only a partial Savior. You do not believe that Christ is the actual Savior that the Bible clearly teaches. You wrote in your post #121, "No one was saved at the cross"; thus, you are condemned by your own words.

Well since none of us were alive 2000 yrs ago we could not have 1] believed the gospel message or 2] trusted in God for our salvation. So factually neither you nor I were saved at the cross but God did make our salvation possible through faith in Him. That is the condition that God has set but you continue to deny this biblical fact.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
I deny none of the Holy Scriptures.



ALL of the conditions for the salvation of God's elect were fulfilled by Christ.



Faith in Christ and His finished work and repentance of dead works are fruits resulting from, not before, regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

All the conditions were met so that we could be saved when we trust in Him. If one does not trust in God then they are not saved.

Your posts continue to show your errant view of salvation. You have one born again prior to them believing but scripture disagrees with your false view. What you continue to preach is an empty gospel that provides just a false hope of salvation. A faithless salvation.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

' ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise. This cannot have respect to the Father's sealing his people in election, with the seal of his foreknowledge, 2Tim 2:19 for that is before faith, and is within himself, and not on them, and is distinct from the Spirit's work; and for the same reasons it cannot design the Son's affection to them, setting them as a seal on his arm and heart, Song 8:6, or his asserting his property in them, and the security and protection of them, Song 4:12, nor the Spirit's finishing and completing his own work of grace upon the soul, in which sense the word is used, Rom 15:28 for this as yet was not done upon these believing Ephesians; nor the confirming the Gospel, and the saints in it, by the extraordinary effusion of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost, or by his extraordinary works which attended the ministry of the word, to the establishing of it, and the faith of men in it; since these were not common to believers, nor did they continue; whereas the believing Ephesians, in common, were sealed; and the Spirit of God continues still as a sealer of his people, and as an earnest and pledge of their inheritance until the day of redemption; but it is to be understood of the confirming, certifying, and assuring the saints, as to their interest in the favour of God, and in the blessings of grace, of every kind, and their right and title to the heavenly glory; and the seal of these things is not circumcision, nor baptism, nor the Lord's supper, nor even the graces of the Spirit; but the Spirit himself, who witnesses to the spirits of believers the truth of these things, and that as a "spirit of promise". '

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on Ephesians 1:13

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

"and shall believe in thine heart, that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved; for this article of Christ's resurrection includes the several other articles of faith: it supposes his death, and that supposes his life, and the obedience of it; and his life implies his being here on earth, and that his coming down from heaven to do the will of his Father; and this is the rather mentioned, which is here ascribed to God the Father, though not to the exclusion of the Son and Spirit, because that Christ is risen again for our justification, with which true faith is principally concerned; for such a faith is intended, not which lies in a mere assent to the truth of this, or any other article of the Christian religion; but which is concerned with Christ for righteousness, life, and glory; and with such a faith salvation is certainly and inseparably connected."

- excerpt from John Gill's commentary on Romans 10:9

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

"For whosoever shall call upon the name the Lord,.... This testimony is taken out of Joel 2:32 and is brought to prove the truth of what the apostle had just suggested, that all that call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, will find him rich and plenteous in mercy, and ready to dispense his grace and salvation to them: such

shall be saved; be they who they will, whether Jews or Gentiles; not with a temporal salvation only, but with a spiritual and eternal one; for the words of the prophet refer to Gospel times, as the context shows, and is cited and applied thereunto by the Apostle Peter, Acts 2:16; besides, the deliverance and salvation Joel speaks of, is of a "remnant whom the Lord shall call", Joel 2:32; and designs the remnant according to the election of grace, whether among Jews or Gentiles, whom God calls by his efficacious grace; between which call and eternal glory, there is a certain and inseparable connection."

- John Gill's Bible commentary on Romans 10:13
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Did anyone say salvation was not 100% of our sovereign God? Nope. So deflection on display


Is the claim salvation is 100% of our sovereign God "man-centered." Nope So more deflection on display


What did Christ mean when He said "It is finished?" That His mission of providing the means of salvation for all Humanity was finished. You bet!

Every saved individual once had not received mercy, therefore they were not chosen before their creation, because then they would have always received mercy from conception.


When God chooses an individual to be "His people" they become part of His people, and therefore to be "not a people" requires that sometime during their lifetime, they had not been individually chosen.



Thus 1 Peter 2:9-10 absolutely precludes anyone being chosen individually before creation. It is a lock no matter how much non-germane verbiage is posted.


When are our names written in the Lamb's book of life? When God chooses to credit our faith as righteousness and transfer us spiritually into Christ's spiritual body.

Is Salvation "conditioned" on the person's performance such that salvation is in part earned, merited, deserved, etc? Nope, so yet another deflection on display. Salvation depends on God alone. How many times must I say this in order for the taint so crowd to stop with their false charges? Seven times, or Seven times Seven?
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
' ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise. This cannot have respect to the Father's sealing his people in election, with the seal of his foreknowledge, 2Tim 2:19 for that is before faith, and is within himself, and not on them, and is distinct from the Spirit's work; and for the same reasons it cannot design the Son's affection to them, setting them as a seal on his arm and heart, Song 8:6, or his asserting his property in them, and the security and protection of them, Song 4:12, nor the Spirit's finishing and completing his own work of grace upon the soul, in which sense the word is used, Rom 15:28 for this as yet was not done upon these believing Ephesians; nor the confirming the Gospel, and the saints in it, by the extraordinary effusion of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost, or by his extraordinary works which attended the ministry of the word, to the establishing of it, and the faith of men in it; since these were not common to believers, nor did they continue; whereas the believing Ephesians, in common, were sealed; and the Spirit of God continues still as a sealer of his people, and as an earnest and pledge of their inheritance until the day of redemption; but it is to be understood of the confirming, certifying, and assuring the saints, as to their interest in the favour of God, and in the blessings of grace, of every kind, and their right and title to the heavenly glory; and the seal of these things is not circumcision, nor baptism, nor the Lord's supper, nor even the graces of the Spirit; but the Spirit himself, who witnesses to the spirits of believers the truth of these things, and that as a "spirit of promise". '

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on Ephesians 1:13



"and shall believe in thine heart, that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved; for this article of Christ's resurrection includes the several other articles of faith: it supposes his death, and that supposes his life, and the obedience of it; and his life implies his being here on earth, and that his coming down from heaven to do the will of his Father; and this is the rather mentioned, which is here ascribed to God the Father, though not to the exclusion of the Son and Spirit, because that Christ is risen again for our justification, with which true faith is principally concerned; for such a faith is intended, not which lies in a mere assent to the truth of this, or any other article of the Christian religion; but which is concerned with Christ for righteousness, life, and glory; and with such a faith salvation is certainly and inseparably connected."

- excerpt from John Gill's commentary on Romans 10:9



"For whosoever shall call upon the name the Lord,.... This testimony is taken out of Joel 2:32 and is brought to prove the truth of what the apostle had just suggested, that all that call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, will find him rich and plenteous in mercy, and ready to dispense his grace and salvation to them: such

shall be saved; be they who they will, whether Jews or Gentiles; not with a temporal salvation only, but with a spiritual and eternal one; for the words of the prophet refer to Gospel times, as the context shows, and is cited and applied thereunto by the Apostle Peter, Acts 2:16; besides, the deliverance and salvation Joel speaks of, is of a "remnant whom the Lord shall call", Joel 2:32; and designs the remnant according to the election of grace, whether among Jews or Gentiles, whom God calls by his efficacious grace; between which call and eternal glory, there is a certain and inseparable connection."

- John Gill's Bible commentary on Romans 10:13

So you like John Gill but he is not scripture. You are following a man not God. You continue to prove this with all that you post.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Well since none of us were alive 2000 yrs ago we could not have 1] believed the gospel message or 2] trusted in God for our salvation.

Salvation is not based on man, which is what you are teaching.

The Bible teaches that salvation is 100% the work of Almighty God.

You falsely teach that salvation is partly the work of God, but it is up to man to "finish the job", that man has to fulfill this or that or some other condition, that "God did His part, now its up to you to do your part".

I am so thankful to God that He has blessed me with spiritual eyes to see and spiritual ears to hear(Matthew 13:16) the wonderful gospel of a full salvation by the finished work of Christ, in which He fulfilled ALL of the conditions necessary for my salvation and the salvation of ALL of God's elect, chosen by the Father before the foundation of the world and given to Christ to be their Surety and bring them into His presence.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
So factually neither you nor I were saved at the cross

"2b1. From eternal election: the objects of justification are God's elect; "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? it is God that justifies"; that is, the elect. Now if God's elect, as such, can have nothing laid to their charge; but are by God acquitted, discharged, and justified; and if they bore this character of elect from eternity, or were chosen in Christ before the world began; then they must be acquitted, discharged and justified so early, so as nothing could be laid to their charge: besides, by electing grace men were put into Christ, and were considered as in him before the foundation of the world; and if they were considered as in him, they must be considered as righteous or unrighteous; not surely as unrighteous, unjustified, and in a state of condemnation; for "there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ", (Romans 8:1) and therefore must be considered as righteous, and so justified: "Justified then we were, says Dr. Goodwin when first elected, though not in our own persons, yet in our Head, as he had our persons then given him, and we came to have a being and an interest in him."

2b2. Justification may well be considered as a branch of election; it is no other, as one expresses it, than setting apart the elect alone to be partakers of Christ's righteousness; and a setting apart Christ's righteousness for the elect only; it is mentioned along with election, as of the same date with it; "Wherein", that is, in the grace of God, particularly the electing grace of God, spoken of before, "he has made us accepted in the beloved" (Ephesians 1:6). What is this acceptance in Christ, but justification in him? and this is expressed as a past act, in the same language as other eternal things be in the context, he "has" blessed us, and he "has" chosen us, and "having" predestined us, so he has made us accepted; and, indeed, as Christ as always the beloved of God, and well pleasing to him; so all given to him, and in him, were beloved of God, well pleasing to him, and accepted with him, or justified in him from eternity.

2b3. Justification is one of those spiritual blessings with which the elect are blessed in Christ according to election-grace, before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:3,4). That justification is a spiritual blessing none will deny; and if the elect were blessed with all spiritual blessings, then with this; and if thus blessed according to election, or when elected, then before the foundation of the world: and this grace of justification must be no small part of that "grace which was given in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world was" (2 Timothy 1:9). We may say, says Dr. Goodwin, of all spiritual blessings in Christ, what is said of Christ, that his goings forth are from everlasting—in Christ we were blessed with all spiritual blessings, (Ephesians 1:3) as we are blessed with all other, so with this also, that we were justified then in Christ!

2b4. Christ became a Surety for his people from everlasting; engaged to pay their debts, bear their sins, and make satisfaction for them; and was accepted of as such by God his Father, who thenceforward looked at him for payment and satisfaction, and looked at them as discharged, and so they were in his eternal mind; and it is a rule that will hold good, as Maccovius observes, "that as soon as one becomes a surety for another, the other is immediately freed, if the surety be accepted;" which is the case here and it is but a piece of common prudence, when a man has a bad debt, and has good security for it, to look not to the principal debtor, who will never be able to pay him, but to his good bondsman and surety, who is able; and so Dr. Goodwin observes, that God, in the everlasting transaction with Christ, "told him, as it were, that he would look for his debt and satisfaction of him, and that he did let the sinners go free; and so they are in this respect, justified from all eternity."

2b5. The everlasting transaction, the same excellent writer thinks, is imported in 2 Corinthians 5:19 . "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them". And the very learned Witsius is of opinion, "that this act of God may be called, the general justification of the elect." And, indeed, since it was the determination of God, and the scheme and method he proposed to take in Christ for the reconciliation of the elect, not to impute their sins to them, but to his Son, their Surety; then seeing they are not imputed to them, but to him; and if reckoned and accounted to him, then not to them; and if charged to him, then they must be discharged from them, and so justified; and a non-imputation of sin to the elect, is no other than a justification of them; and thus the apostle strongly concludes the imputation of Christ's righteousness; which is the "formalis ratio", or the form of justification, from the non-imputation of sin, and the remission of it (Romans 4:6-8)."

- excerpt from John Gill's A Body of Doctrinal Divinity
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
All the conditions were met so that we could be saved

Christ met ALL of the conditions and actually saved God's elect, everyone chosen by the Father before the foundation of the world and given to Christ to be their Surety and bring them into His presence.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
You have one born again prior to them believing

Which is what the Bible teaches. Faith is a gift given to those who have been regenerated.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
So you like John Gill but he is not scripture.

John Gill was a faithful preacher of God's Word.

You keep knocking listening to faithful gospel preachers, yet the Bible commends it.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
A faithless salvation.

All of God's elect, chosen by the Father before the foundation of the world and given to Christ to be their Surety and bring them into His presence, will be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and granted the gifts of faith in Christ and His finished work and repentance of dead works.

Therefore, God's people do believe and they do repent - by the power of God.

They do not do so by their own power to effect their own salvation, because such a power to do so within themselves does not even exist.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Salvation is not based on man, which is what you are teaching.

The Bible teaches that salvation is 100% the work of Almighty God.

You falsely teach that salvation is partly the work of God, but it is up to man to "finish the job", that man has to fulfill this or that or some other condition, that "God did His part, now its up to you to do your part".

I am so thankful to God that He has blessed me with spiritual eyes to see and spiritual ears to hear(Matthew 13:16) the wonderful gospel of a full salvation by the finished work of Christ, in which He fulfilled ALL of the conditions necessary for my salvation and the salvation of ALL of God's elect, chosen by the Father before the foundation of the world and given to Christ to be their Surety and bring them into His presence.

Where do you come up with your dumb ideas. Only God can save but He has made the condition of our salvation being our faith. No faith no salvation.

You have said more than once that God saves people before they even believe in Him or are you now going to deny that is your theological view?
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
"2b1. From eternal election: the objects of justification are God's elect; "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? it is God that justifies"; that is, the elect. Now if God's elect, as such, can have nothing laid to their charge; but are by God acquitted, discharged, and justified; and if they bore this character of elect from eternity, or were chosen in Christ before the world began; then they must be acquitted, discharged and justified so early, so as nothing could be laid to their charge: besides, by electing grace men were put into Christ, and were considered as in him before the foundation of the world; and if they were considered as in him, they must be considered as righteous or unrighteous; not surely as unrighteous, unjustified, and in a state of condemnation; for "there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ", (Romans 8:1) and therefore must be considered as righteous, and so justified: "Justified then we were, says Dr. Goodwin when first elected, though not in our own persons, yet in our Head, as he had our persons then given him, and we came to have a being and an interest in him."

2b2. Justification may well be considered as a branch of election; it is no other, as one expresses it, than setting apart the elect alone to be partakers of Christ's righteousness; and a setting apart Christ's righteousness for the elect only; it is mentioned along with election, as of the same date with it; "Wherein", that is, in the grace of God, particularly the electing grace of God, spoken of before, "he has made us accepted in the beloved" (Ephesians 1:6). What is this acceptance in Christ, but justification in him? and this is expressed as a past act, in the same language as other eternal things be in the context, he "has" blessed us, and he "has" chosen us, and "having" predestined us, so he has made us accepted; and, indeed, as Christ as always the beloved of God, and well pleasing to him; so all given to him, and in him, were beloved of God, well pleasing to him, and accepted with him, or justified in him from eternity.

2b3. Justification is one of those spiritual blessings with which the elect are blessed in Christ according to election-grace, before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:3,4). That justification is a spiritual blessing none will deny; and if the elect were blessed with all spiritual blessings, then with this; and if thus blessed according to election, or when elected, then before the foundation of the world: and this grace of justification must be no small part of that "grace which was given in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world was" (2 Timothy 1:9). We may say, says Dr. Goodwin, of all spiritual blessings in Christ, what is said of Christ, that his goings forth are from everlasting—in Christ we were blessed with all spiritual blessings, (Ephesians 1:3) as we are blessed with all other, so with this also, that we were justified then in Christ!

2b4. Christ became a Surety for his people from everlasting; engaged to pay their debts, bear their sins, and make satisfaction for them; and was accepted of as such by God his Father, who thenceforward looked at him for payment and satisfaction, and looked at them as discharged, and so they were in his eternal mind; and it is a rule that will hold good, as Maccovius observes, "that as soon as one becomes a surety for another, the other is immediately freed, if the surety be accepted;" which is the case here and it is but a piece of common prudence, when a man has a bad debt, and has good security for it, to look not to the principal debtor, who will never be able to pay him, but to his good bondsman and surety, who is able; and so Dr. Goodwin observes, that God, in the everlasting transaction with Christ, "told him, as it were, that he would look for his debt and satisfaction of him, and that he did let the sinners go free; and so they are in this respect, justified from all eternity."

2b5. The everlasting transaction, the same excellent writer thinks, is imported in 2 Corinthians 5:19 . "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them". And the very learned Witsius is of opinion, "that this act of God may be called, the general justification of the elect." And, indeed, since it was the determination of God, and the scheme and method he proposed to take in Christ for the reconciliation of the elect, not to impute their sins to them, but to his Son, their Surety; then seeing they are not imputed to them, but to him; and if reckoned and accounted to him, then not to them; and if charged to him, then they must be discharged from them, and so justified; and a non-imputation of sin to the elect, is no other than a justification of them; and thus the apostle strongly concludes the imputation of Christ's righteousness; which is the "formalis ratio", or the form of justification, from the non-imputation of sin, and the remission of it (Romans 4:6-8)."

- excerpt from John Gill's A Body of Doctrinal Divinity

So again you prove that you believe a man over the word of God. You just can not stop digging a deeper hole can you.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Christ met ALL of the conditions and actually saved God's elect, everyone chosen by the Father before the foundation of the world and given to Christ to be their Surety and bring them into His presence.

Christ covered the cost of our sins but we have to accept the free gift through faith in the gift giver.

Your hyper cal view is clouding your understanding of scripture.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Which is what the Bible teaches. Faith is a gift given to those who have been regenerated.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Using Eph 2:8 to support your view just shows you really do not understand the bible in the least.

In a theological sense, regeneration is called the new birth.} Webster

So you still want to deny scripture and claim man is saved prior to his having faith in God. You are a really strange fellow. You claim to believe the bible then deny what it says.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
John Gill was a faithful preacher of God's Word.

You keep knocking listening to faithful gospel preachers, yet the Bible commends it.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

There are many preachers that I would not give the time of day to. When he twists scripture to support the views that you hold then I would not call him a faithful teacher.

The standard is the bible not what some man tells you the bible says.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
All of God's elect, chosen by the Father before the foundation of the world and given to Christ to be their Surety and bring them into His presence, will be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and granted the gifts of faith in Christ and His finished work and repentance of dead works.

Therefore, God's people do believe and they do repent - by the power of God.

They do not do so by their own power to effect their own salvation, because such a power to do so within themselves does not even exist.

There you go denying scripture again. Do you not think you will be held to account for your disregard of God's word?
 
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