When Did Abraham Inherit the Promise?

[Hark]

Well, that being said, we do not agree in our understanding on Jesus' reason for teaching in parables. And does not require a true story to be a parable.

Should the question be asked that a parable is another way of saying the truth of the reality we live in as a true story does?

 

[Aaron]

When did Abraham inherit the promise? OP

YLT Romans 4:13 For not through law. the promise to Abraham, or to his seed, of his being heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith; --------- Was it possible for the flesh and blood Abraham to inherit the world or would for him to inherit the world require him to be raised out of the dead? Was it possible for Abraham to inherit the world before his seed (singular) inherited the promise. Is Jesus, the one brought forth by the virgin Mary, the one God (the Father) appointed heir of all things. the seed (singular) of Abraham? ----- Was Abraham sinless? Was the seed of Abraham sinless? Was the seed of Abraham obedient unto death even the death of the cross? Is that, obedience unto death, what brought our redemption and was it because of, our redemption, the seed of Abraham was raised out of the dead.

2 Tim 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised out of the dead, of the seed of David, according to my good news,

Has the seed of David, the seed of Abraham inherited the world? ----- When?

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Is that in bold a post resurrection statement? Consider: John 17:5 'And now, glorify me, Thou Father, with Thyself, with the glory that I had before the world was, with Thee; John 7:39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Romans 1:3,4 concerning His Son, (who is come of the seed of David according to the flesh, who is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead,) Jesus Christ our Lord;

When will father Abraham inherit the world? Will it be at next coming of his seed?

Luke 20:34-38 YLT And Jesus answering said to them, 'The sons of this age do marry and are given in marriage, but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again. 'And that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the Bush, since he doth call the Lord, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and He is not a God of dead men, but of living, for all live to Him.'

Abraham will inherit the promise and be inheritor of the world, in the next age, at the coming of Jesus and the resurrection of those that are Christ's.

I M H O

k

 

[Hark]

Hark Translators may have put a, s, on the end but the word is singular.

Check any literal translation.

NLT has the correct concept. But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.

I do not believe Strong's Concordance or all knowledge on translation is known. Since there are different definitions to the Greek word, then how it is used in the verse defines its usage.

So in the context of the message .. if there was only one resurrection, then why cite an order by how men will be resurrected?

Then we have Zechariah 14:1-5 of Jesus setting foot on the Mount of Olives in coming back with the saints to do battle against the armies marching against Jerusalem.

But in Revelation 20:1-6 Satan is already in the pit for a thousand years when He resurrected those saints as described as coming out of the great tribulation. That means He is on earth when that so called "first resurrection" took place which many believers err as being that rapture event but it cannot be. Revelation 20:5 is the explanation of why they used the term "first resurrection" as meaning that resurrection was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment.

There is His appearing as the Bridegroom when He will judge His House first and then there is that coming as the King of kings when that resurrection is when He s on earth in meeting them, not in the air as at that rapture event as the Bridegroom in receiving the abiding bride of Christ to the Marriage supper to be held in Heaven..

So when aligning the truth in His words, Christ the firstfruits is plural after all with Christ, regardless of intellectual studies, and they that be Christ's at His coming sets the order of how men will be raised up.

I could go on to give another example of lack of knowledge in Strong's Concordance regarding that hell in Matthew 5:22-26 is about hell on earth per Deuteronomy 32:22 because of Matthew 18:21-35 is addressing brothers as saved believers for why if saved believers do not repent, they will be cut off for not abiding in Him ( John 15:1-8 ) & be left behind for not being ready when Christ comes Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25.

Please ask Jesus to confirm this because scripture paints the rapture event as when God will judge His House first 1 Peter 4:17-19 as He is faithful to keep the souls left behind as they incur physical death but their spirits are saved 1 Corinthians 3:10-17.

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not believe Strong's Concordance or all knowledge on translation is known. Since there are different definitions to the Greek word, then how it is used in the verse defines its usage.

So in the context of the message .. if there was only one resurrection, then why cite an order by how men will be resurrected?

Then we have Zechariah 14:1-5 of Jesus setting foot on the Mount of Olives in coming back with the saints to do battle against the armies marching against Jerusalem.

But in Revelation 20:1-6 Satan is already in the pit for a thousand years when He resurrected those saints as described as coming out of the great tribulation. That means He is on earth when that so called "first resurrection" took place which many believers err as being that rapture event but it cannot be. Revelation 20:5 is the explanation of why they used the term "first resurrection" as meaning that resurrection was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment.

There is His appearing as the Bridegroom when He will judge His House first and then there is that coming as the King of kings when that resurrection is when He s on earth in meeting them, not in the air as at that rapture event as the Bridegroom in receiving the abiding bride of Christ to the Marriage supper to be held in Heaven..

So when aligning the truth in His words, Christ the firstfruits is plural after all with Christ, regardless of intellectual studies, and they that be Christ's at His coming sets the order of how men will be raised up.

I could go on to give another example of lack of knowledge in Strong's Concordance regarding that hell in Matthew 5:22-26 is about hell on earth per Deuteronomy 32:22 because of Matthew 18:21-35 is addressing brothers as saved believers for why if saved believers do not repent, they will be cut off for not abiding in Him ( John 15:1-8 ) & be left behind for not being ready when Christ comes Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25.

Please ask Jesus to confirm this because scripture paints the rapture event as when God will judge His House first 1 Peter 4:17-19 as He is faithful to keep the souls left behind as they incur physical death but their spirits are saved 1 Corinthians 3:10-17.

First resurrection is at Second Coming, while Second at end of Millennium!

 

[Hark]

First resurrection is at Second Coming, while Second at end of Millennium!

Read post #43 with His help again, brother. You are missing something important. Ask Him what it is. Study the scripture with Him.

 

[Yeshua1]

Read post #43 with His help again, brother. You are missing something important. Ask Him what it is. Study the scripture with Him.

The First resurrection is either the rapture or Second Coming, depending on how one views it!

 

[Hark]

The First resurrection is either the rapture or Second Coming, depending on how one views it!

The rapture is a resurrection & a gathering of those still living to meet the Lord in the air to be forever with the Lord in Heaven per 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

The so called "first resurrection" in Revelation 20:1-6 at His coming is not the actual first resurrection but that resurrection was to happen "first" before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment. That is the reason why first resurrection was phrased for using per Revelation 20:5.

As it is, Satan is defeated & in the pit for a thousand years so Jesus is already on earth when that resurrection happens after the great tribulation. So the first resurrection is NOT the rapture event of meeting the Lord in the air.

 

[percho]

I do not believe Strong's Concordance or all knowledge on translation is known. Since there are different definitions to the Greek word, then how it is used in the verse defines its usage.

So in the context of the message .. if there was only one resurrection, then why cite an order by how men will be resurrected?

Then we have Zechariah 14:1-5 of Jesus setting foot on the Mount of Olives in coming back with the saints to do battle against the armies marching against Jerusalem.

But in Revelation 20:1-6 Satan is already in the pit for a thousand years when He resurrected those saints as described as coming out of the great tribulation. That means He is on earth when that so called "first resurrection" took place which many believers err as being that rapture event but it cannot be. Revelation 20:5 is the explanation of why they used the term "first resurrection" as meaning that resurrection was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great White Throne Judgment.

There is His appearing as the Bridegroom when He will judge His House first and then there is that coming as the King of kings when that resurrection is when He s on earth in meeting them, not in the air as at that rapture event as the Bridegroom in receiving the abiding bride of Christ to the Marriage supper to be held in Heaven..

So when aligning the truth in His words, Christ the firstfruits is plural after all with Christ, regardless of intellectual studies, and they that be Christ's at His coming sets the order of how men will be raised up.

I could go on to give another example of lack of knowledge in Strong's Concordance regarding that hell in Matthew 5:22-26 is about hell on earth per Deuteronomy 32:22 because of Matthew 18:21-35 is addressing brothers as saved believers for why if saved believers do not repent, they will be cut off for not abiding in Him ( John 15:1-8 ) & be left behind for not being ready when Christ comes Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25.

Please ask Jesus to confirm this because scripture paints the rapture event as when God will judge His House first 1 Peter 4:17-19 as He is faithful to keep the souls left behind as they incur physical death but their spirits are saved 1 Corinthians 3:10-17.

I did not say there is one resurrection.
Jesus, singular, about 2000 years ago was resurrected out of the dead. Jesus and only Jesus. The first-fruit.
When Jesus Christ comes again, to the earth, those who are Christ's old and new testament, will be resurrected and rule with Christ 1000 years.
After the 1000 years, the rest of mankind, will be resurrected and judged ?

After that, there will be no more death.

 

[Hark]

I did not say there is one resurrection.
Jesus, singular, about 2000 years ago was resurrected out of the dead. Jesus and only Jesus. The first-fruit.
When Jesus Christ comes again, to the earth, those who are Christ's old and new testament, will be resurrected and rule with Christ 1000 years.
After the 1000 years, the rest of mankind, will be resurrected and judged ?

After that, there will be no more death.

How about this; cite which Bible version you are using for "Christ the firstfruit" is singular without the s on the end.

 

[percho]

How about this; cite which Bible version you are using for "Christ the firstfruit" is singular without the s on the end.

1 Corinthians 15 :: Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

Just found something weird, YLT Translates the same Greek in verse 20 thus:
And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,

Why would they do that? Some of the Greek gurus on the board need to explain.

I believe in V 20 it has something to do with the definite article but not sure.

In the NT YLT pl only once and sig the other 7 times used.


Interesting.

 

[37818]

Should the question be asked that a parable is another way of saying the truth of the reality we live in as a true story does?

The fact that the account in Luke 16:19-31 is to be understood as an actual event rules it out as a paralble.
Abraham, Moses, the prophets, and by reason another person is named as well rules this account out as a parable.

 

[Hark]

1 Corinthians 15 :: Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

Just found something weird, YLT Translates the same Greek in verse 20 thus:
And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,

Why would they do that? Some of the Greek gurus on the board need to explain.

I believe in V 20 it has something to do with the definite article but not sure.

In the NT YLT pl only once and sig the other 7 times used.


Interesting.

Thank you for sharing.

As we prophesy in part and know in part, is why we need to rely on Him for the meaning of His words because not everything known about translating the scripture is known ether.

So it is good to give pause to only seeing firstfruit as singular when scripture does refer to others as being firstfruits and other Bibles has firstfruits as plural as the KJV does.

At this link are other applications to firstfruits in scripture.

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: firstfruits

So per your discovery..

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

One may be able to discern with Him that there is an order by how all men in Christ shall be made alive.

 

[Hark]

The fact that the account in Luke 16:19-31 is to be understood as an actual event rules it out as a paralble.
Abraham, Moses, the prophets, and by reason another person is named as well rules this account out as a parable.

I understand what you are saying and I can agree with you that it is an actual event.

I shall try to rely on Him not to refer to that as a parable. but I am not convinced that it is not a parable.

Case in point in how Jesus began this story earlier.

Luke 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

My point is that He does not always announce He is telling a parable. He spoke of a certain rich man in Luke 16:1 in a different way as referring to the rich man in Luke 16:19 just as He spoke of a certain beggar named Lazarus in Luke 16:20

So are His stories the same as His parables? It looks that way to me as conveying the truth in His words.

 

[37818]

So are His stories the same as His parables? It looks that way to me as conveying the truth in His words.

Ok. We do seem not agree on this matter.

 

[Hark]

It does seem to appear that way, yes. We agree to disagree. We can always hope in the Lord to correct us as we walk with Him in His words. After all He is our Good Shepherd.

 

[percho]

OP

When did Abraham inherit the promise?

IMHO the promise is, eternal life, in body, incorruptible. And I do not believe anyone can inherit, that eternal life, apart from resurrection out of the dead and or instant change, if still alive in flesh and blood.

I believe, to date, the only one created and or born of woman who has been raised out of the dead, to die no more, no more to return to corruption, is Jesus of Nazareth, the seed of David, the seed of Abraham, the Son of the living God.

Therefore I do not believe Abraham has yet received, the promise.

 

[Hark]

It does seem to appear that way, yes. We agree to disagree.

OP

When did Abraham inherit the promise?

IMHO the promise is, eternal life, in body, incorruptible. And I do not believe anyone can inherit, that eternal life, apart from resurrection out of the dead and or instant change, if still alive in flesh and blood.

I believe, to date, the only one created and or born of woman who has been raised out of the dead, to die no more, no more to return to corruption, is Jesus of Nazareth, the seed of David, the seed of Abraham, the Son of the living God.

Therefore I do not believe Abraham has yet received, the promise.

Thank you for sharing. I am at this time uncertain regarding the bodies of O.T. saints because of this.

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

To discern whether or not the resurrected bodies of the O.T. saints were taken within Paradise to Heaven by Him, or just their spirits were taken to await the actual firstfruits of the resurrection, thus a temporary life on earth, we find this scripture.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Seems like only the spirits of the O.T. saints within Paradise were taken up to Heaven along with Paradise, and that resurrection was temporary one in Matthew 27:52-53.

 

[37818]

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

I believe that to have been a unique special event, not part of the the first resurrection in which Christ is the first fruits of it, 1 Corinthians 15:20, Colossians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 15:23, Romans 8:29, 1 John 3:2.

 

[Hark]

I believe that to have been a unique special event, not part of the the first resurrection in which Christ is the first fruits of it, 1 Corinthians 15:20, Colossians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 15:23, Romans 8:29, 1 John 3:2.

Thank you for sharing. I agree Christ is the firstfruit as in firstborn and per my view the rapture event, there will be firsfruits with the Bridegroom as they that be Christ's will be raised after the great tribulation to serve the King of kngs.