When is hiding who you are permissible?

[webdog]

So to avoid persecution, I'll hide my identity as a Christian?

If avoiding persecution furthers the Gospel, should it be done?

The book of Hebrews was written to believers who were being persecuted and attempted to hide their faith by making themselves appear Jewish or by abandoning their confession of faith in Christ. The writer of Hebrews was fortifying the Jewish believers to hold to the faith.

It was the reason for the persecution that was the issue. They were not trying to fulfill the Great Commission, and their avoidance of persecution was due to the fact they were being shunned by their own people, not that they had the Gospel in mind.

 

[Marcia]

The ones who were open were the Apostles. if you recall, thousands upon thousands were being added to the church each week. Of those thousands a very few were persecuted. That is why the early church went by "The Way", and used the Icthys to mark meeting places. The first church was an Underground Church. This was all done with the Gospel in mind. What good would it have done to spread the Gospel if everyone upon conversion was immediately imprisoned and killed?

Actually, they first called themselves Christians in Antioch. Do you think they stopped doing this?

Did they go to pagan temples and pretend to be pagans (I've heard that some believers in Muslim countries go to the mosque)?

According to your post, the end justifies the means. God will be thwarted if we stand for the faith? Will God run out of believers?

 

[webdog]

Actually, they first called themselves Christians in Antioch. Do you think they stopped doing this?

Actually, the were first called Christians in Antioch, they didn't call themselves Christians in Antioch.

Did they go to pagan temples and pretend to be pagans (I've heard that some believers in Muslim countries go to the mosque)?

I don't know, did they? Does Scripture say one way or the other? Paul was at the meeting of the Areopagus when he gave his address on Mars Hill. Is it wrong to go to a mosque to win muslims to Christ?

According to your post, the end justifies the means.

...and at times it should.

God will be thwarted if we stand for the faith?

Standing for the faith has to be done in only one manner?

Will God run out of believers?

No, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Johnv]

Did they go to pagan temples and pretend to be pagans (I've heard that some believers in Muslim countries go to the mosque)?

Hmmm, well, Paul said he was a Jew and did so proudly in Acts 22. And we know he went and visited pagan temples in Athens. Obviously, he didn't worship any but God alone, but he certainly didn't deny his Judaism or avoid steer clear of pagan temples.

 

[Marcia]

Actually, the were first called Christians in Antioch, they didn't call themselves Christians in Antioch.

Okay. It does not seem they rejected it, however. At any rate, this is normally what we believers call ourselves (though I know we have another thread on that somewhere).

I don't know, did they? Does Scripture say one way or the other? Paul was at the meeting of the Areopagus when he gave his address on Mars Hill. Is it wrong to go to a mosque to win muslims to Christ?

This is another issue. Going to a mosque to preach is not the same as going to a mosque to pretend you are a Muslim.

...and at times it should.

Not if it compromises the truth.

Standing for the faith has to be done in only one manner?

No, I didn't say that. But in the face of persecution, should we hide our faith? That is the issue here.

No, but that's neither here nor there

But you said a few posts above:

What good would it have done to spread the Gospel if everyone upon conversion was immediately imprisoned and killed?

So I responded, Will God run out of believers? It is relevant to what you said.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Hmmm, well, Paul said he was a Jew and did so proudly in Acts 22. And we know he went and visited pagan temples in Athens. Obviously, he didn't worship any but God alone, but he certainly didn't deny his Judaism or avoid steer clear of pagan temples.

Paul's trip to the pagan temples was for the intent of preaching and spreading the gospel. It does not apply to webdog's question.

The example given about Christian Muslem's going to the mosque to hide the fact that they are Christian is considerably different than Paul.

I really believe it has to be considered case base case. Situation by situation.

Example: Do I stop and share the plan of salvation with everyone I see? Of course not. But I am required to do so when I feel that God want's me to.

Too often we try to make a flowchart of Step 1 , Step 2, etc. The Gospel isn't like that. You and I may be in the same city, under the same circumstances. God may want you to stand and may direct me to flee. Or visa-versa. Elijah prayed down fire from heaven, and defeated an army, then fled from Jezabel.

 

[Marcia]

Hmmm, well, Paul said he was a Jew and did so proudly in Acts 22. And we know he went and visited pagan temples in Athens. Obviously, he didn't worship any but God alone, but he certainly didn't deny his Judaism or avoid steer clear of pagan temples.

But he didn't go to the pagan temples to pretend to be pagan, did he? That was my point about the believers going to the mosque.

 

[Marcia]

Too often we try to make a flowchart of Step 1 , Step 2, etc. The Gospel isn't like that. You and I may be in the same city, under the same circumstances. God may want you to stand and may direct me to flee. Or visa-versa. Elijah prayed down fire from heaven, and defeated an army, then fled from Jezabel.

Fleeing is not the same as pretending to be something you are not. I thought the topic here was hiding your identity as a believer, not fleeing.

 

[Johnv]

Paul's trip to the pagan temples was for the intent of preaching and spreading the gospel. It does not apply to webdog's question.

Good point. It does point out that Paul didn't avoid nonchristian places of worship.

I really believe it has to be considered case base case. Situation by situation.

I concur. I don't think you can apply a litmus test to fit all examples.

 

[webdog]

Fleeing is not the same as pretending to be something you are not. I thought the topic here was hiding your identity as a believer, not fleeing.

It's actually both. If you flee you are not boldly standing against persecution as well. Two sides of the same coin.

 

[webdog]

This is another issue. Going to a mosque to preach is not the same as going to a mosque to pretend you are a Muslim.

Why is it another issue? Like I stated, there are preachers in state sanctioned churches in areas hostile to the Gospel who go along with the government's strict guidelines to further the Gospel.

No, I didn't say that. But in the face of persecution, should we hide our faith? That is the issue here.

I think it depends on the situation, and like was recently stated, there is no litmus test for each situation but the Holy Spirit.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Fleeing is not the same as pretending to be something you are not. I thought the topic here was hiding your identity as a believer, not fleeing.

I am not completely sure that they are different in this context. The way I see it, hiding can be a form of flee. Sort of "hidden in plain sight" kind of thing. I understand your point, but at the same time one can find examples in the Bible to at least open up a question or two. The handmaids flat out lied to the Egyptians and yet the scriptures lead us to believe that God was pleased with them for doing so.

There are cases where Jesus told his disciples to keep quiet about things they saw until it was time to reveal them. I would not be surised if God lead someone to keep quit for a time in a highly persecuted land.

 

[Marcia]

It's actually both. If you flee you are not boldly standing against persecution as well. Two sides of the same coin.

The Gospel Geek: I am not completely sure that they are different in this context. The way I see it, hiding can be a form of flee. Sort of "hidden in plain sight" kind of thing. I understand your point, but at the same time one can find examples in the Bible to at least open up a question or two. The handmaids flat out lied to the Egyptians and yet the scriptures lead us to believe that God was pleased with them for doing so.

There are cases where Jesus told his disciples to keep quiet about things they saw until it was

But hiding your identity and/or pretending to be something you are not are forms of deception. I do not think fleeing is deception. I do not think hiding is just another form of fleeing; you can say that, but I don't think it's true.

Being quiet about something is also not deception. Jesus did not tell them to lie.

There was no "guile" in the mouth of Jesus. Are we not to be like Jesus? Are we not being conformed to His image? Does the Bible not tell us that deception is wrong?

 

[Marcia]

Why is it another issue? Like I stated, there are preachers in state sanctioned churches in areas hostile to the Gospel who go along with the government's strict guidelines to further the Gospel.

You do not see the difference between going to a mosque to preach and going to mosque to pretend to be a Muslim???

 

[webdog]

You do not see the difference between going to a mosque to preach and going to mosque to pretend to be a Muslim???

I don't see them as being mutually exclusive, no.

 

[Marcia]

I don't see them as being mutually exclusive, no.

They are not the same thing at all. One case is preaching the gospel; the other is hiding your identity as a Christian and pretending to be a Muslim.

 

[webdog]

But hiding your identity and/or pretending to be something you are not are forms of deception. I do not think fleeing is deception. I do not think hiding is just another form of fleeing; you can say that, but I don't think it's true.

Being quiet about something is also not deception. Jesus did not tell them to lie.

There was no "guile" in the mouth of Jesus. Are we not to be like Jesus? Are we not being conformed to His image? Does the Bible not tell us that deception is wrong?

I see plenty of "guile" (which does not necessarily mean sin) here...

28As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them.

 

[webdog]

They are not the same thing at all. One case is preaching the gospel; the other is hiding your identity as a Christian and pretending to be a Muslim.

So the person who pretends to be a muslim to infilitrate a mosque and preach the Gospel one on one with those he encounters is wrong? Like I stated, they are not mutually exclusive. Besides, you have just condemned many believers over the entire globe who do just that. More than one way to evangelize, you know..

 

[Marcia]

I see plenty of "guile" (which does not necessarily mean sin) here...

28As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them.

You did not post where this is from.

"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth" 1 Pet. 2:22 King James

"WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH." NASB

A reference to Is. 53:9

Nor was there any deceit in His mouth

 

[Revmitchell]

It's actually both. If you flee you are not boldly standing against persecution as well. Two sides of the same coin.

I believe you honestly believe that. I disagree