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When Is The Last Day?
- Thread starter James_Newman
- Start date
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Dr. Bob,
I do not agree with you.
A second grade student can understand what 'last day of school' means. A 2nd grade student excites, and looking forward for the last day of school tomorrow, knows when after that last day odf school past, then there will be no more class afterward for the summer.
Whilst myself was a premil before. I studied millennial in the Bible more deeper.
John 6:39,40,44, & 54 caused me into trouble, because these are conflict with premill doctrine. Christ does not saying there will be 365,000 days apart between second advent & the end of millennium. Also, Christ does not saying there will be 2,555 days or 365,000 days apart between the two periods of resurrections. Simple, Christ tells us, the resurrection will be occur on the LAST day. I understand clear what Christ actual saying. Last day is the final day of the mankind era, time for Christ to come to judge the world at the second coming would be at the end of the world.
Right now, we are in the last dayS. Last days already begin since after Christ ascend back into the heaven. Last dayS have been last for nearly 2,000 years.
But the LAST day would be at the end of the world/age when Christ comes with his angels, there will be resurrection of the world both believers and unbelievers according to John 5:27-29.
Also, throughout in the four gospels of Christ's ministry for three years. Christ never teaching to his disciples on 'a thousand years'. Christ taught his disciples, that there will be the last day, all people shall be resurrection, and there shall be harvest of the world at the end of the age - once according in Matthew chapter 13; chapter 24; and 25:31-46.
Not difficult to read and understand what Christ was actual saying in John 6:39,40,44, & 54 -'last day', all of you can read these and understand what it means. I do not care what you trying to telling me something different from what Christ saying according to John 6:39,40,44,& 54 by your own guesswork or opinion what 'last day' means. No excuse for you CAN read and understand what Christ saying. We cannot add something what Christ actual saying. We leave Christ's word alone, believe and accept what Christ said.
I understand 'last day' of John 6:39,40,44, & 54 speak of the eternality shall be begin immediately right after Christ's coming and the resurrection.
Right now, we are in this age. This age shall be over when Christ shall come with his angels, and the next age begins with eternality.
To pretribbers:
In the past, I asked questions to you: Show us where a verse in the Bible saying Christ shall come BEFORE tribulation? Show us where a verse in the Bible saying Rapture shall be occur 3 1/2 or 7 years earier BEFORE Christ's coming?
Michelle, I promise, I will reply back to you in other topic about rapture.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
I do not agree with you.
A second grade student can understand what 'last day of school' means. A 2nd grade student excites, and looking forward for the last day of school tomorrow, knows when after that last day odf school past, then there will be no more class afterward for the summer.
Whilst myself was a premil before. I studied millennial in the Bible more deeper.
John 6:39,40,44, & 54 caused me into trouble, because these are conflict with premill doctrine. Christ does not saying there will be 365,000 days apart between second advent & the end of millennium. Also, Christ does not saying there will be 2,555 days or 365,000 days apart between the two periods of resurrections. Simple, Christ tells us, the resurrection will be occur on the LAST day. I understand clear what Christ actual saying. Last day is the final day of the mankind era, time for Christ to come to judge the world at the second coming would be at the end of the world.
Right now, we are in the last dayS. Last days already begin since after Christ ascend back into the heaven. Last dayS have been last for nearly 2,000 years.
But the LAST day would be at the end of the world/age when Christ comes with his angels, there will be resurrection of the world both believers and unbelievers according to John 5:27-29.
Also, throughout in the four gospels of Christ's ministry for three years. Christ never teaching to his disciples on 'a thousand years'. Christ taught his disciples, that there will be the last day, all people shall be resurrection, and there shall be harvest of the world at the end of the age - once according in Matthew chapter 13; chapter 24; and 25:31-46.
Not difficult to read and understand what Christ was actual saying in John 6:39,40,44, & 54 -'last day', all of you can read these and understand what it means. I do not care what you trying to telling me something different from what Christ saying according to John 6:39,40,44,& 54 by your own guesswork or opinion what 'last day' means. No excuse for you CAN read and understand what Christ saying. We cannot add something what Christ actual saying. We leave Christ's word alone, believe and accept what Christ said.
I understand 'last day' of John 6:39,40,44, & 54 speak of the eternality shall be begin immediately right after Christ's coming and the resurrection.
Right now, we are in this age. This age shall be over when Christ shall come with his angels, and the next age begins with eternality.
To pretribbers:
In the past, I asked questions to you: Show us where a verse in the Bible saying Christ shall come BEFORE tribulation? Show us where a verse in the Bible saying Rapture shall be occur 3 1/2 or 7 years earier BEFORE Christ's coming?
Michelle, I promise, I will reply back to you in other topic about rapture.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Start another thread on your question about Jesus returning for His bride before the Tribulation, please.
And you can disagree. English language uses the term "day" to refer to a lot of time, not just 24-hours. No one can refute the "day" of the Lord is metaphorical/idiomatic. Part of the language.
And you can disagree. English language uses the term "day" to refer to a lot of time, not just 24-hours. No one can refute the "day" of the Lord is metaphorical/idiomatic. Part of the language.
James_Newman
New Member
I wasn't talking about the 'day of the Lord' until you tried to cram it into the same verses as 'the last day'. DPT is absolutely right that the last days and the last day are distinct. There are many last days, but only one last day.
John 6 speaks a lot about the last day, being raised up on it, unbelievers being judged in it, then in John 7 we see this:
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
If this is a picture, it is of the last day gathering, when all believers will be raised up and they will drink of the living water, and never thirst again. The last day of the feast is a holy convocation, or gathering. There is not a lot of ambiguity about when the resurrection takes place. According to revelation, there is a first resurrection at the start of the millennium, then there is the general ressurection after the thousand years have expired. The bible says 'blessed and holy is he who has a part in the first ressurection' and the 'rest of the dead' are raised up 1000 years later at the start of eternity AFTER the kingdom. This would fit the picture in John 7. If the 1000 yr kingdom is the 7th day, the last day is the eighth day, which is also the last day of the feast of tabernacles.
John 6 speaks a lot about the last day, being raised up on it, unbelievers being judged in it, then in John 7 we see this:
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
If this is a picture, it is of the last day gathering, when all believers will be raised up and they will drink of the living water, and never thirst again. The last day of the feast is a holy convocation, or gathering. There is not a lot of ambiguity about when the resurrection takes place. According to revelation, there is a first resurrection at the start of the millennium, then there is the general ressurection after the thousand years have expired. The bible says 'blessed and holy is he who has a part in the first ressurection' and the 'rest of the dead' are raised up 1000 years later at the start of eternity AFTER the kingdom. This would fit the picture in John 7. If the 1000 yr kingdom is the 7th day, the last day is the eighth day, which is also the last day of the feast of tabernacles.
If the last day was the same as the last days, why then did Jesus nail it down to a single day by saying "At" the last day rather than "In" the last days? Doesn't singular and plural usages of words mean anything anymore?
It appears Jesus is refering to a single day here.
I am fully in agreement we are in the last days but have not reached the last day.
DPT is right.
A second grader knows what the last day of school is. And I don't think Jesus was vague in this case. There will be a last day before the eternal age begins.
(as in the day we all get to the New Heaven and New Earth.)
In His service;
Jim
It appears Jesus is refering to a single day here.
I am fully in agreement we are in the last days but have not reached the last day.
DPT is right.
A second grader knows what the last day of school is. And I don't think Jesus was vague in this case. There will be a last day before the eternal age begins.(as in the day we all get to the New Heaven and New Earth.)
In His service;
Jim
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
We are living in the last days and have been for almost 2000 years. However, I believe that the Last Day in the referenced passages from the Gospel of John actually refer to the Last Day, that is, the Day of the Lord, at which time the General Resurrection and Judgment promised in John 5:28, 29 will occur.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
If the Great White Throne Judgment was not for everyone why was the Book of Life Opened?
Revelation 20:15 states: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
That passage does not teach that everyone at the Great White Throne Judgment was cast into the Lake of Fire but only those whose names were not in the Book of Life.
James_Newman
New Member
Amen!
DeafPosttrib
New Member
av1611jim,
Well saying! Simple and amen!
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Well saying! Simple and amen!
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
If the Great White Throne Judgment was not for everyone why was the Book of Life Opened?
Revelation 20:15 states: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
That passage does not teach that everyone at the Great White Throne Judgment was cast into the Lake of Fire but only those whose names were not in the Book of Life. </font>[/QUOTE]This horse has been ridden many times here at the BB. Let me kick it again.
Dr. Bob says no believers will be at the GWT. So I aks him what he does with the millions who live through the Millenium? When is their judgement day? "For it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgement."
Old Regular (as are many others in this thread) is right. There is a last and final day of time. It is at the GWT. But not ALL who are there are cast into the LOF. Unless of course you wish to do violence to the clear meaning of words.
In His service;
Jim
Here is the penultimate passage on the Great White Throne judgment (Rev 20). I will stop and add a comment or two:
Now, NOWHERE in the passage to we see Christians being judged. It is all unsaved, judged for works. This verifies the punishment as duly deserved and they are checked against the Book of Life and, when not found, are cast into the lake of fire.
The GWT is for unbelievers. Period. You can't find believers in the passage. They ALL GO TO HELL (lake of fire).
Two sets of books. One has the elect-from-the-foundation names; other books [pllural] have all the works of men
Judgment is NOT based on saved/unsaved. Judgment is based on the books/works. Not salvation, but degree of punishment.
Again, no dealing with saved/unsaved, but works.
Judgment in lake of fire is based on the OTHER book, book of life.
Now, NOWHERE in the passage to we see Christians being judged. It is all unsaved, judged for works. This verifies the punishment as duly deserved and they are checked against the Book of Life and, when not found, are cast into the lake of fire.
The GWT is for unbelievers. Period. You can't find believers in the passage. They ALL GO TO HELL (lake of fire).
prophecynut
New Member
In a agreement
Scriptures do not gives us an answer. I assume they are caught up to the New Jerusalem where all the saints of the past are before the earth is purged with fire. After the new heaven and earth is complete the New Jerusalem will come down from heaven and rest on the new earth (Rev. 21:10).
Judgment for works of the translated living Mill saints will probably be done when they reach God's city.
Thanks for you non-answer Dr. B.
Obviously prophecynut comes closer to an answer for he at least attempts it. (I disagree with him but at least he attempts to answer.) You miss it altogether.
Again, and read slowly so you get it this time.
Where are the saints of the millenial age? They are present at the GWT.
In His service;
Jim
Obviously prophecynut comes closer to an answer for he at least attempts it. (I disagree with him but at least he attempts to answer.) You miss it altogether.
Again, and read slowly so you get it this time.
Where are the saints of the millenial age? They are present at the GWT.
In His service;
Jim
prophecynut
New Member
JIM, got a question for ya.
Phil. 4:1-3 NIV
Therefore, my brothers, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, that is how you should stand firm in the Lord , dear friends!
I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to agree with each other in the Lord .
Yes. And I ask you, loyal yoke fellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life .
My understanding is this; all believers in the Lord have their names in the book of life, it does not contain the names of unbelievers.
Do you agree with me?
Phil. 4:1-3 NIV
Therefore, my brothers, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, that is how you should stand firm in the Lord , dear friends!
I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to agree with each other in the Lord .
Yes. And I ask you, loyal yoke fellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life .
My understanding is this; all believers in the Lord have their names in the book of life, it does not contain the names of unbelievers.
Do you agree with me?
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Reading Matthew 25:31-46 is not difficult for you to understand.
Christ tells us, WHEN He shall come with his angels, He shall send angels to gathering all people of the world, separate goats(unbelievers) from the sheep(believers), and Christ shall judge all people, some shall be cast into everlasting fire, some shall have everlasting life. Matthew 25:31-46 telling us, there is the only ONE judgement day follow at Christ's coming, no other else.
Pretrib/Disp teaches there shall be three judgement days in the futue: 1. 'Judgment Seat of Christ for the "Church" at rapture during 7 year of Tribulation Period 2. 'Judgment of Nations' for people who shall be survived through seven year of Tribulation period at the end of tribulation follow Christ's coming. 3. Great White Throne for the unsaved only after millennial kingdom expired.
Does the Bible actual clear teaching on three future judgment days? Not clear and flaw according to Dispensationalism doctrine. To be honest with you, I do not see two or three future judgment days in the Bible. I can see there is only one judgment day at Christ's coming.
The reason is, Dispensationalism teaching two or three different judgment days because of distinction between 'Israel' & 'Church'. Disp. teaches, 'Judgment Seat of Christ' is for "Church" only, 'Great White Throne' is for unsaved only. Some saying, 'Judgment of nations' of Matt. 25:31-46 is apply to "Tribulation Saints" & "Israel".
Actually, dispensationalism teaching is so complex, and confusion upon people, to make the Body of Christ looks divided or schism.
I do not believe Christ's teaching makes look complex, and difficult. I believe Christ ALWAYS giving simple teachings. I consider, Christ is the greatest lecturist than anyone. Because, Christ always giving clear and simple, by use lot of illustrations, parables, and spiritual meanings.
I am no doubt, all disciples of Christ understood what Christ talking about according to Matt. 25:31-46, they understood Christ speaks of the final judgement day follow His coming at the end of the world, to judge all people of the world. Even, Early Christians believed in the general judgment day for the world. That beliefs have been common understand and agree each others for throughout 18 Centuries from Pentacost Day to 19th Century. Then, John Darby developed Dispensationalism doctrine, taught there will be series of the judgment days. Many Churches started to adopt his teaching during in the late 19th Century.
Today, large percent of SBC and IFB churches now teaching, there are series of judgment days, thank to John Darby.
More than 300 years ago, all baptists believe in general judgment day, didn't you aware of them?
We have to back to old time fashion teaching by stick on God's Word instead what we listening today's modern scholars, teachers, pastors, etc. according to Colossians 2:8.
Later, I will show you the scriptures to prove us, there is the only one judgment day, no other else - this week.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Christ tells us, WHEN He shall come with his angels, He shall send angels to gathering all people of the world, separate goats(unbelievers) from the sheep(believers), and Christ shall judge all people, some shall be cast into everlasting fire, some shall have everlasting life. Matthew 25:31-46 telling us, there is the only ONE judgement day follow at Christ's coming, no other else.
Pretrib/Disp teaches there shall be three judgement days in the futue: 1. 'Judgment Seat of Christ for the "Church" at rapture during 7 year of Tribulation Period 2. 'Judgment of Nations' for people who shall be survived through seven year of Tribulation period at the end of tribulation follow Christ's coming. 3. Great White Throne for the unsaved only after millennial kingdom expired.
Does the Bible actual clear teaching on three future judgment days? Not clear and flaw according to Dispensationalism doctrine. To be honest with you, I do not see two or three future judgment days in the Bible. I can see there is only one judgment day at Christ's coming.
The reason is, Dispensationalism teaching two or three different judgment days because of distinction between 'Israel' & 'Church'. Disp. teaches, 'Judgment Seat of Christ' is for "Church" only, 'Great White Throne' is for unsaved only. Some saying, 'Judgment of nations' of Matt. 25:31-46 is apply to "Tribulation Saints" & "Israel".
Actually, dispensationalism teaching is so complex, and confusion upon people, to make the Body of Christ looks divided or schism.
I do not believe Christ's teaching makes look complex, and difficult. I believe Christ ALWAYS giving simple teachings. I consider, Christ is the greatest lecturist than anyone. Because, Christ always giving clear and simple, by use lot of illustrations, parables, and spiritual meanings.
I am no doubt, all disciples of Christ understood what Christ talking about according to Matt. 25:31-46, they understood Christ speaks of the final judgement day follow His coming at the end of the world, to judge all people of the world. Even, Early Christians believed in the general judgment day for the world. That beliefs have been common understand and agree each others for throughout 18 Centuries from Pentacost Day to 19th Century. Then, John Darby developed Dispensationalism doctrine, taught there will be series of the judgment days. Many Churches started to adopt his teaching during in the late 19th Century.
Today, large percent of SBC and IFB churches now teaching, there are series of judgment days, thank to John Darby.
More than 300 years ago, all baptists believe in general judgment day, didn't you aware of them?
We have to back to old time fashion teaching by stick on God's Word instead what we listening today's modern scholars, teachers, pastors, etc. according to Colossians 2:8.
Later, I will show you the scriptures to prove us, there is the only one judgment day, no other else - this week.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
prophecynut
New Member
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Same scripture you use to dismiss it.
Rev. 20:15 "whosoever was not found in the book of life..."
It is clear there will be some who are found in that book.
Otherwise it would have said differently.
Same as when it is said, "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Clearly this means that some will not call on Him.
Same, same.
You STILL have not answered me. WHERE are the believers who come out of the Kingdom age?
How do you define "whosoever?" It does NOT mean everybody.
In His service;
Jim
Rev. 20:15 "whosoever was not found in the book of life..."
It is clear there will be some who are found in that book.
Otherwise it would have said differently.
Same as when it is said, "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Clearly this means that some will not call on Him.
Same, same.
You STILL have not answered me. WHERE are the believers who come out of the Kingdom age?
How do you define "whosoever?" It does NOT mean everybody.
In His service;
Jim
Lacy Evans
New Member
Mr Evans:
Now class, I want all the girls to stand up and go to the library.
Implication:
Mr Evans only has girls in his class.
Mr Evans:
Everyone who did not do their book report will receive a zero.
Implication:
No one did their book report and all received a zero.
Mr Evans:
I want everyone who is not a seventh grader to get out his Math book.
Implication:
Mr Evans has no 7th graders.
God:
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Implication:
No one was found written in the book.
Just trying to be consistent with my mutilation of the king's Grammar.
lacy
Now class, I want all the girls to stand up and go to the library.
Implication:
Mr Evans only has girls in his class.
Mr Evans:
Everyone who did not do their book report will receive a zero.
Implication:
No one did their book report and all received a zero.
Mr Evans:
I want everyone who is not a seventh grader to get out his Math book.
Implication:
Mr Evans has no 7th graders.
God:
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Implication:
No one was found written in the book.
Just trying to be consistent with my mutilation of the king's Grammar.
lacy