1689Dave
Well-Known Member
He's the Serpent in Revelation 20. Did you ever consider, we are living now in the last 1/2 of Revelation 20 just before the Lord returns?
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When is/was/will the 1st seal be opened?
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1689Dave
Well-Known Member
No, Israel was the most wicked nation on earth. They forfeited the land promises long before reaching the promised land. An 11-day journey that took 40 years. They burnt their children alive several times. They worshiped demons in Idols. And today they exist only because of their hatred of Christ. The rest of Israel accepted Christ and are now the Church.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You don't understand John's language and are missing the entire message. If you could understand, the trumpets, bowls, and seals were happening as John wrote. They span the New Covenant until the end of the world.
Since being on this BBS and being exposed to this idea all prophesy (save for the Second Coming) has been fulfilled ... yes.
I find it hard to believe we are in that 1000 years ... or proverbial "long time" where the lion and the lamb lay down in a pasture side by side and we're simply waiting for the New Jerusalem to come-down from Heaven.
I think that doctrine slides the needle across a couple of songs on the vinyl disc.
Some professors from Hebrew University explored the passages which run under the Dome & found the actual temple site was BESIDE where the Dome stands. Still, the Moslems wouldn't like a Jewish temple being built next to their 2nd most-holy site.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You are missing the message altogether by forcing a literal interpretation on it. If you understand the Church alone is Israel, much of the OT becomes symbolic as Jesus taught.
well, whoda thunk the Jews would have been able to blow their shofar on Temple Mount this past Rosh Hashanah?
But they did.
Sir ... is the only thing you have to offer on this is "if you understood"
how did you come to this understanding? Someone told you "if you understood..." and so you did?
I try really hard to incorporate different ideas into consideration, but the presentation matters. It reveals a level of respect conferred and if there's no respect for the person, then we're nothing more than autobots going about our pre programmed business.
I think Jesus was pretty clear in teaching that relationships matter the most. While I accept an online relationship is hardly achievable to the extent of a relationship with Jesus ... there are conversations which can happen without condescension.
How did you come to this understanding most of the OT is symbolic? If there is very little which is literal, what is literal in the OT?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You need to study Jesus' words in the gospel of the kingdom where he destroys the Pharisee's doctrine of Premillennialism. If you reject the gospel of the kingdom and side with the Pharisees, which most do today, you cannot understand most of the bible, especially Revelation.
gotta reference or two? I mean, Jesus gave us a LOT of information and there are 4 books dedicated to this which include more than instruction about premillennialism.
Why do you say I reject the gospel of the kingdom? Because I disagree with a doctrinal point which has no bearing on one's spirit being breathed back to life ... nor even in discipleship?
well, I gave ya an opportunity. thanks.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus destroyed Premillennialism in the gospels. You need to study what he said.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Here it is.
The gospel of the kingdom
Daniel said; “And in the days of these kings [Old Roman Empire] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” Daniel 2:44 (NCPB)
“And [Jesus] saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)
“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)
“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)
“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” Luke 16:16 (KJV 1900)
“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)
“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)
“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)
“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)
“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
“I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.” Revelation 1:9 (NASB95)
“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:12 (KJV 1900)
“That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.” 1 Thessalonians 2:12 (KJV 1900)
“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.” Acts 19:8 (KJV 1900)
“And when thy days [David] be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.” 2 Samuel 7:12–13 (KJV 1900)
“For the kingdom is the LORD’s: and he is the governor among the nations.” Psalm 22:28 (NCPB)
“Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:” 2 Thessalonians 1:5 (KJV 1900)
“For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” Luke 7:28 (KJV 1900)
“Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.” Luke 18:17 (KJV 1900)
“And it came about that when He had reclined at the table with them, He took the bread and blessed it, and breaking it, He began giving it to them.” Luke 24:30 (NASB)
“For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” Luke 22:16 (KJV 1900)
thank you, sir. I'll study these and report back on what I am told from The Spirit.
departing from pre-trib rapture was a radical change from me, so believe me when I tell you I'm willing to be corrected.
i posted the verses that show the millenium begins with Jesus' return.
No, why would I consider that? Even the first part has not happened. Example:
Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
There has not been any Christians losing heads in the Great Trib. Really.
No. Some did enter in. Neither does God go back on His promises.
That is impossible. Look at this verse for example and tell us when it happened in John' day?
Revelation 16:2
And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You've missed the entire book. Christ's return is imminent which places us in the last 1/2 of Revelation 20. The great tribulation in AD 70 was Jewish in nature. Christian tribulation began with Christ and lasts until he returns. You've missed the entire thing.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You do not understand the mark of the beast. It is not literal. It began with Nero and continues today in the Papacy and other totalitarian regimes. Can you spot the mark of the beast in America? It's here but you will never see it looking for its symbol to appear.
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