When Jesus cleared the Temple

[jacob62]

1st Thessolonians 4:11-12 Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life,to mind your own business and to work with your hands,just as we told you,so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependant on anybody.

 

[jacob62]

It is written,My house will be a house of prayer,but you have made it a den of robbers.

 

[jacob62]

BAPTIST PRODUCTIONS PRESENTS:The Sermon on the Mount Starring Jesus Christ $11.50 advance-$10.50 day of show-Fish and bread lunch-$5.00 extra-all restrictions apply(lol)

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by jacob62:
BAPTIST PRODUCTIONS PRESENTS:The Sermon on the Mount Starring Jesus Christ $11.50 advance-$10.50 day of show-Fish and bread lunch-$5.00 extra-all restrictions apply(lol)

 

[music4Him]

I agree that the selling of Christian books and tapes "in church" is wrong. Also if you are selling them above cost "out side of church" to make a profit it is likewise wrong. But thats my humble opinion.

 

[David Michael Harris]

Originally posted by music4Him:
I agree that the selling of Christian books and tapes "in church" is wrong. Also if you are selling them above cost "out side of church" to make a profit it is likewise wrong. But thats my humble opinion.

I agree, a lot of churches are more interested in turnover with regards to money than people.
Makes want to vomit.

David

 

[TexasSky]

There is so much to the account of the clearing of the temple that is important to its understanding, and yet often skipped over.

By Jewish tradition - people had to make certain sacrifices using certain types of birds or animals. Profiteers chose to abuse the faith of people by declaring that they had to purchase their sacrifices at the temple, then sold them "poor quality" items at prices much higher than they should be. In short, they were using people's desire to please God as a method of highway robbery.

If we start teaching people that God won't forgive them unless they buy our books or our music, if we start trying to use the faith of people to rip them off, God will surely be displeased.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by jacob62:
Matthew 10:7-8 As you go,preach this message:"The kingdom of heaven is near.'Heal the sick,raise the dead,cleanse those who have leprosy,drive out demons.Freely you have received,freely give.

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Do you take your own advice.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by jacob62:
1st Thessolonians 4:11-12 Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life,to mind your own business and to work with your hands,just as we told you,so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependant on anybody.

People (including pastors, evangelists, etc.) who write books and/or produce music cd's may also "lead a quiet life, mind their own business, and work with their own hands, as Paul has commmanded them."
If writing a book is not working with your own hands then what is?? That should be a no-brainer.
In some cases if the church paid the pastor a half decent salary then perhaps the preacher would be able to spend more time in prayer and the word and less time doing other things to eke out a living for his family.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by jacob62:
It is written,My house will be a house of prayer,but you have made it a den of robbers.

Who are you to play the part of God. This is the most arrogant presumptuous statement I have heard.
My house is a house of prayer.
We also pray and get instructed at the meeting place of the church but that is another story.
DHK

 

[jacob62]

For DHK:"My will be a house of prayer" is found in Isaiah 56.Jesus was quoting("It is written")what Isaiah wrote,but did not name Isaiah as the people in the temple were familiar with scripture."It is written,My house will be a house of prayer,but you have made it a den of robbers."is found in Matt 21:13-Mark 11:17-Luke 19:46.I presumed as a moderator and missionary,you were familiar with scripture.From now on I will give book,chapter,and verse to avoid further confusing you.God bless.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by jacob62:
For DHK:"My will be a house of prayer" is found in Isaiah 56.Jesus was quoting("It is written")what Isaiah wrote,but did not name Isaiah as the people in the temple were familiar with scripture."It is written,My house will be a house of prayer,but you have made it a den of robbers."is found in Matt 21:13-Mark 11:17-Luke 19:46.I presumed as a moderator and missionary,you were familiar with scripture.From now on I will give book,chapter,and verse to avoid further confusing you.God bless.

I am not confused jacob, you are. I have repeatedly told you that these verses specifically refer to the Old Testament Jewish Temple located in Jerusalem. I am not a Jew, do not live in Jerusalem, and do not worship at the Jewish Temple. It is not rightly dividing the Word of Truth to apply those verses to New Testament Christianity. You are taking these verses out of context only to justify your own preconceived ideas, or even to make up your own petty doctrines which are outside of the Bible.

The only Temple the New Testament speaks of is the body. I challenge you to find any other.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Thus your entire hermeneutic is faulty.
My house is a house of prayer. (Don't judge)
My house is not the church.
My house is not the church building.
DHK

 

[jacob62]

We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God,that we may understand what God has freely given us.This is what we speak,not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit,expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,for they are foolishness to him,and he cannot understand them,because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by jacob62:
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God,that we may understand what God has freely given us.This is what we speak,not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit,expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,for they are foolishness to him,and he cannot understand them,because they are spiritually discerned.

Good Jacob.
Now maybe we can get on the same page.
Try comprehending these verses:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[jacob62]

I am glad you are examing yourself with these scriptures DHK and I thank God for it,I do it all the time,"For the spiritual man makes judgements about all things,but he himself is not subject to any man's judgement:For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?But we have the mind of Christ."

 

[DHK]

Then you will recognize that the Old Testament Temple has nothing to do with church buildings. To suggest so, is a perversion of the word of God.
DHK

 

[jacob62]

Let us reason and consider for a moment instead of swapping scripture.Selling doves for sacrifice at a jacked up price in the Temple.Im sure the dove sellers had a reason for making a profit.Higher costs for running the temple,the huge influx of people coming in for the passover,paying for supplies to further the cause of Judeism,or just plain greed.It was obviously condoned by the Temple preists,the Pharasees and the Saducees.Why would Jesus have cared?He knew He was about to become the better sacrifice for the whole world.He knew the temple and that way of worship would be done away with anyway.An example for Judeism?A prophecy fulfilled?Jesus was just having a bad day and needed anger management classes and a script of prozac?(lol)Or could this be a warning for future christians to freely give what you have freely received?Feed the sheep by writing a book and selling it to the sheep?

[ May 04, 2005, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: jacob62 ]

 

[tamborine lady]

I have trouble with people who won't accept this part of the scripture for us, because it was for thr Jews. Or that part because Jesus was talking to the Pharisees or Sadducees and not to us.

I think we are supposed to use ALL the words of Jesus as instruction for US!!

If all the words of Jesus were not to be used for us, then they should be removed from the bible!! Why not just start with the book of Acts,----oh wait! NO, that has those nasty old gifts that we don't use anymore!!

Lets start with 1 Corinthians!! But theres stuff in there that should be thrown out too!!

Oh I know, lets just buy a book from a great theologen that just says what we want to hear.

All the bible is to be used for instruction and reproof. But some use it to their peril. Many big name preachers do err not knowing the scriptures:Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

John-5-39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

the Bible is called the Living word of God for a reason!!

Working for Jesus,

Tam

 

[jacob62]

Amen Tam

 

[Kiffen]

Throughout the New Testament, the Church is compared to a Temple. Let us remember that most of the Epistles are primarily books addressed to Churches NOT Individuals. To take them out of their Church context is to misuderstand them.

TO THE CORINTHIAN CHURCH PAUL WROTE,

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

TO THE EPHESIAN CHURCH PAUL WROTE
Ephesians 2:20-22 .

"20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. "

So yes the Church is the successor to both the OT Tabernacle and Temple. The Holy Spirit indwells the members and is continually building up this temple by adding new members.

There is no justification to say the Church Building is the successor to the OT Tabernacle and Temple BUT where Christ Church meets BE it a little Church house, Gymnasium. Gothic cathedral, House Church..there is where God meets His people and there is His Sanctuary.

I could see the Temple cleansing of Jesus applied in a secondary sense in they way some Ministries require money to attend their crusades (Joel Osteen is an example of this) and I am sure there are other examples of how Christ Temple has allowed money to corrupt her ministry today.