When should a pastor be removed?

[Crabtownboy]

Of course. But these commands go doubly for a man who accepts the mantle of authority in the church.

I am am a Baptist. I do not believe any man/woman has spiritual authority over anyone. Spiritual authority is the only authority that has any real meaning. What I am saying is that we should be extremely show to take such a drastic action. We either take Christ's saying and teachings seriously and approach each situation looking for a loving solution. What I have seen in my rather long life is far too many people wanting to stone another while they themselves are guilty of far more. Not only did Christ say, Let him without sin ..............

Christ also said, "Do unto others are you would have them do to you."


And James said, "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry."

All our decisions must be tempered by the teachings of Christ.

 

[pk4life]

Go for it. Quote the 'consequence part'.

So we should keep unsaved people in the pulpit. Got it.

 

[preacher4truth]

So we should keep unsaved people in the pulpit. Got it.

Sounds to me 'the unforgiving servant' here is not the pastor.

 

[agedman]

I'd like to see your biblical support for that view. Certainly the pastoral letters from Paul, though you cite them, contradict it.

1 Timothy 3, NASB
2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
6 and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
7 And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. [emphasis added]​

Certainly everything the pastor does is under a microscope. Someone somewhere sees him and how he acts. If he has sin in his life that, as I originally said, is unconfessed, hidden and continuing, then he must be called to account. Perhaps dismissal is not necessary, but certainly steps must be taken to bring him back into fellowship.

Under YOUR standard, the pastor should be removed for even a traffic ticket.

Look again at the good post that 12 strings made. He is wise in what he stated.

 

[agedman]

I am am a Baptist. I do not believe any man/woman has spiritual authority over anyone. Spiritual authority is the only authority that has any real meaning. What I am saying is that we should be extremely show to take such a drastic action. We either take Christ's saying and teachings seriously and approach each situation looking for a loving solution. What I have seen in my rather long life is far too many people wanting to stone another while they themselves are guilty of far more. Not only did Christ say, Let him without sin ..............

Christ also said, "Do unto others are you would have them do to you."


And James said, "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry."

All our decisions must be tempered by the teachings of Christ.

Temperance in all matters is not a bad word to follow.

There are a few items that transcend temperance, and a pastor who consistently leads a double life, is not to remain in the office of elder.

 

[Alcott]

Do we take the words of Christ seriously or not?

Probably not. Do you hate your wife or children or parents? or do you prefer not being His disciple?

 

[pk4life]

Sounds to me 'the unforgiving servant' here is not the pastor.

You have been responding to what you think happened since you entered this thread. I never had a chance. Pardon me if I get a little short with that absurdity.

 

[preacher4truth]

You have been responding to what you think happened since you entered this thread. I never had a chance. Pardon me if I get a little short with that absurdity.

Not quite. I've only responded to your side of the story and have concluded justly that it isn't the pastor that is the 'unforgiving servant' here.

 

[pk4life]

Not quite. I've only responded to your side of the story and have concluded justly that it isn't the pastor that is the 'unforgiving servant' here.

Incorrect. From your first post.

Instead they look for reasons to lynch him.

You're making stuff up, and basing all your commentary on that. You did not get that from anything I said, aside from foolish asssumptions.

 

[12strings]

Christ's words are pretty plain. I have heard of pastors being removed much more often than members ... and yet I know member of churches who were ... well, let's say not very good people an no one suggested they be removed.

Do we take the words of Christ seriously or not?

1. So would you disagree that there is NEVER a situation in which the right and godly thing to do is to remove a pastor from leadership...or a member from membership? How does your view fit with 1 cor. 5 & the Tim & titus qualifications for pastor?

2. Yes we do...so if I'm ever in a group of people about to stone someone for adultery when the second party to the adultery is getting off scott free...I will put down my stones...and if a brother sins against me grievously and is unrepentant, and bringing shame to Christ, I will take Jesus's words seriously and address him privately, then with a few others, then take it to the church.

 

[Crabtownboy]

1. So would you disagree that there is NEVER a situation in which the right and godly thing to do is to remove a pastor from leadership...or a member from membership? How does your view fit with 1 cor. 5 & the Tim & titus qualifications for pastor?

As long as it is done in a manner that meets the teaching of Christ. Your idea below of approaching him quietly seems a good way to start, but not a public stoning.

Too often we Christians are far too ready to crucify our own.

2. Yes we do...so if I'm ever in a group of people about to stone someone for adultery when the second party to the adultery is getting off scott free...I will put down my stones...and if a brother sins against me grievously and is unrepentant, and bringing shame to Christ, I will take Jesus's words seriously and address him privately, then with a few others, then take it to the church.[/QUOTE]

 

[preacher4truth]

Incorrect. From your first post.

You're making stuff up, and basing all your commentary on that. You did not get that from anything I said, aside from foolish asssumptions.

Yes, call me foolish and blessings to you. I've made all my commentary based upon your 'story' and frankly your story lacks evidence, yet you want to convict a pastor. You've smelled blood and now you're crazed for it.

That, and all we have is your side of the story, so go see Proverbs 14:15 for instance. Any wise person should be leery of commenting when you only start off with a portion of the truth only to come out later with 'more'. That is being deceitful and is begging the question. :wavey:

On your side (congregational) you've shown such to be the 'unforgiving servant' side. Thus YOU are in error.

You've failed to prove the pastor as such. Honestly you should be ashamed, but up to this point I don't think you can be ashamed.

 

[saturneptune]

Apart from sexual sins, that is.

At what point does lying, back biting, gossip and failure to implement proper church discipline start equaling removal from office?

And, should the responsibility to instigate this removal ever fall on the pastor's kids? Or should the kids just move on to another church and let the church they grew up in handle it?

Is there any right answer?

The right answer is whenever a local church congregation votes either a majority or two thirds to remove him depending on their Constitution.

 

[PeterM]

The removal of a pastor/elder should fall under the process of church discipline as a whole. There is no other standard in Scripture. Follow the steps of Matthew 18 whether the person is a pastor or a church member.

Most baptist churches fail grossly in the work of church discipline... unless it's a pastor then all bets are off. My encouragement would be that the other elders/pastors in the church be empowered to address the situation and lead the church through it.

 

[PeterM]

I am am a Baptist. I do not believe any man/woman has spiritual authority over anyone. Spiritual authority is the only authority that has any real meaning. What I am saying is that we should be extremely show to take such a drastic action. We either take Christ's saying and teachings seriously and approach each situation looking for a loving solution. What I have seen in my rather long life is far too many people wanting to stone another while they themselves are guilty of far more. Not only did Christ say, Let him without sin ..............

Christ also said, "Do unto others are you would have them do to you."


And James said, "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry."

All our decisions must be tempered by the teachings of Christ.

To deny you are under spiritual authority in the context of your relationship with your church and pastors is completely out of step with Scripture. To associate that position with being "baptist" misconstrues what it means to be baptist.

Slow deliberate intentional... that is good advise in pursuing corrective church discipline.

 

[Crabtownboy]

To deny you are under spiritual authority in the context of your relationship with your church and pastors is completely out of step with Scripture. To associate that position with being "baptist" misconstrues what it means to be baptist.

Your interpretation, not mine. In my relative long life I have seen far too many pastors with feet of clay to believe you are correct in your interpretation.

And, I really do not know what you mean by spiritual authority. If you mean they stand between me and God than I am sure you are incorrect. If you do not mean this, then I have no idea what you are saying. Please enlighten me.

 

[Aaron]

CBT is here only to justify Obama. These are the arguments he will make if a resolution of impeachment is initiated.

 

[Crabtownboy]

CBT is here only to justify Obama. These are the arguments he will make if a resolution of impeachment is initiated.

Your logic is most strange. So, in your eye taking the teachings of Christ seriously is a political stance. I think that is an error in your theology.

Also, please stay on topic.

 

[Aaron]

No. Not strange at all. I got you pegged.

 

[PeterM]

Your interpretation, not mine. In my relative long life I have seen far too many pastors with feet of clay to believe you are correct in your interpretation.

And, I really do not know what you mean by spiritual authority. If you mean they stand between me and God than I am sure you are incorrect. If you do not mean this, then I have no idea what you are saying. Please enlighten me.

As a pastor, I have "spiritual authority" over the people I serve. As a baptist, I do not mean that I am a "medium" for them. As a baptist, spiritual authority is derived from 1 Peter 5:1-4 and Hebrews 13:7, 17 where elders (pastors) have a clearly defined responsibility to lead (not rule), feed, live a life worth imitating. As baptists, we traditionally hold to the doctrine of the "priesthood of the believer" which I affirm. in the outflow of church governance, congregationalism may appear democratic, but it isn't democracy.

There are going to be some who are hypersensitive to catholicism who reject biblical authority in totality, believing they are an island unto themselves. This is an overreaction and is as unbiblical as catholicism.

And I'm not sure what this has to do with your political views, but FWIW, I do not link the two together.