When will 'Modern' Baptists return to being Baptist

[Crabtownboy]

You will know that the 'modern' Baptists have returned to the being traditional Baptist beliefs and actions when three things happen.

1) When 'modern' Baptists return to preaching the power of the gospel to save and transform individual lives instead of spouting the empty platitudes of civil religion and political positions.

2) When 'modern' Baptists return to extending the kingdom of God, which is not of this world, rather than building a political kingdom in this world.

3) When 'modern' Baptists institutions return to the work of missions and evangelism rather than working to influence politicians and legislators.

In other words, 'modern' Baptists must study Baptist history and doctrine and return to traditional Baptist beliefs and preaching the message of Christ. It is absolutely necessary to reject the mixing of politics and Christianity and to turn again to strictly preaching Christ and the message of Christ to the world. Not only must this message be preached, it must be lived ... and to do this will be costly for some whose congregations have been preached to and bought into the civil religion of mixing Christ and politics.

 

[donnA]

sounds more like it needs to be in the politics forum, because obviously thats the topic.

 

[donnA]

since politics is your topic, how about baptists who vote to approve homosexuality and abortion, and claim either those are alright, or that others things need to be taken into consideration as more important, things which are politicial and nothing reflecting christianity. If baptists were to stand for the word of God instead men, then we might get somewhere, but until then they're going to live the world's set of morals, and see the world not through scripture, but with a world view that reflects more the world then God.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You will know that the 'modern' Baptists have returned to the being traditional Baptist beliefs and actions when three things happen.

1) When 'modern' Baptists return to preaching the power of the gospel to save and transform individual lives instead of spouting the empty platitudes of civil religion and political positions.

2) When 'modern' Baptists return to extending the kingdom of God, which is not of this world, rather than building a political kingdom in this world.

3) When 'modern' Baptists institutions return to the work of missions and evangelism rather than working to influence politicians and legislators.

In other words, 'modern' Baptists must study Baptist history and doctrine and return to traditional Baptist beliefs and preaching the message of Christ. It is absolutely necessary to reject the mixing of politics and Christianity and to turn again to strictly preaching Christ and the message of Christ to the world. Not only must this message be preached, it must be lived ... and to do this will be costly for some whose congregations have been preached to and bought into the civil religion of mixing Christ and politics.

1) Your praise of heretics like Barbara Brown Taylor cast doubt on this. She preaches several paths to God, each one as valid as others. Which gospel are you referring to, may I ask ? I thought it was the shed blood of Christ that saved.

2) I don't understand that one, at all. How does one "extend" the Kingdom of God ? By laying down and letting the liberals run roughshod over us, I suppose ?

3) I'd like a list of Baptists who have political influence.


What are the "traditional" Baptist beliefs, if I may ask ?

 

[Mexdeaf]

Some of us never left.

Some others need to.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Also, what is "The message of Christ" that we are to preach, before I respond further.

 

[OldRegular]

since politics is your topic, how about baptists who vote to approve homosexuality and abortion, and claim either those are alright, or that others things need to be taken into consideration as more important, things which are politicial and nothing reflecting christianity. If baptists were to stand for the word of God instead men, then we might get somewhere, but until then they're going to live the world's set of morals, and see the world not through scripture, but with a world view that reflects more the world then God.

You are on point donnA!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Crabtownboy]

1) Your praise of heretics like Barbara Brown Taylor cast doubt on this. She preaches several paths to God, each one as valid as others. Which gospel are you referring to, may I ask ? I thought it was the shed blood of Christ that saved.[/qipte]

How do you know this? What ways does Barbara Brown Taylor say a person can find God?

Do you believe Barbara Brown Taylor is a Baptist? This thread is about Baptists.

What have you read by her? Have you read any of her books?

An Altar in the World, HarperOne, 2009
Leaving Church, HarperSanFrancisco, 2006
The Seeds of Heaven, Westminster John Knox, 2004
Speaking of Sin, Cowley, 2000
The Luminous Web, Cowley, 2000
Home By Another Way, Cowley, 1999
When God is Silent, Cowley, 1998
Mixed Blessings, Cowley, 1998
God in Pain, Abingdon, 1998
Bread of Angels, Cowley, 1997
Gospel Medicine, Cowley, 1995
The Preaching Life, Cowley, 1993

2) I don't understand that one, at all. How does one "extend" the Kingdom of God ? By laying down and letting the liberals run roughshod over us, I suppose?

If you have to ask this question, then you need to study.

How in the world do you think God's Kingdom is extended ... by doing what is said in the first post.

3) I'd like a list of Baptists who have political influence.

Do a bit of research and find out.

What are the "traditional" Baptist beliefs, if I may ask ?

Here is a pretty good list, not totally exhaustive, but a pretty good one.

What is a Baptist?
We are Baptist because we believe that the Baptist distinctives are biblical. Here are the traditional Baptist beliefs as supported by Scripture. We are an Independent Baptist Church, which means the church is governed and supported exclusively from within.
Biblical Authority
The Bible is the final and absolute authority in all matters of faith and practice. Scripture is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Whatever it affirms, we accept as true and authoritative for our lives. The Living Word, Jesus Christ, is Head of the Church (Colossians 1:18) and governs it by His written Word (John 17:17) and His indwelling Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27) in the lives of Christians.
Autonomy of the Local Church
The local church is an independent body accountable to its Head, the Lord Jesus Christ. The church is self-governing (autonomous). All human authority for governing the local church is found within the local church itself. The church itself, not a pope or synod of elders, is the pillar and support of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15).
Priesthood of the Believer
Every believer is a priest before God (1 Peter 2:5, 9) with equal access to enter His presence in prayer through our Great High Priest and Mediator, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). The believer-priest has the responsibility to minister to other believers, to lead a holy life, and to offer sacrifices of praise, of gifts, and of himself (Hebrews 13:15-16; Romans 12:1-2).
Two Ordinances
The local church should practice two ordinances: (1) baptism of believers by immersion in water, identifying the individual with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, and (2) the Lord’s Supper (communion) as a remembrance of the work of Christ until His kingdom (Matthew 26:26-28; 28:19-20).
Individual Soul Liberty
Each individual Christian has the right of private judgment in spiritual matters (Romans 14:5). Soul liberty rests upon the Spirit-given ability of each believer to interpret Scripture (1 Corinthians 2:14-16). However, this liberty does not exempt one from responsibility to the Word of God and its proper interpretation or from accountability to God Himself.
Saved, Baptized Church Membership
Local church membership is restricted to those who give a credible testimony of personal faith in Christ alone and have publicly identified themselves with Him in believer’s baptism (Acts 2:41, 47).
Two Offices
The Bible mandates but two offices for the local church: pastor/elder/overseer and deacon (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Philippians 1:1). There is no hierarchy outside the local church.
Separation of Church and State
God established with distinct purposes both the church (Matthew 28:19-20) and civil government (Romans 13:1-7). One should not control the other, nor should there be any alliance between the two (Matthew 22:21). Christians in a free society may properly influence their government toward righteousness.

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache...=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&lr=lang_en&client=firefox-a

 

[sag38]

More propaganda from an angry liberal baptist and I use the word "baptist" lightly. For someone who is against Baptists being in politics Crabby sure likes to use the word a lot.

 

[Revmitchell]

Romans 14:5 says no such thing.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

1) Your praise of heretics like Barbara Brown Taylor cast doubt on this. She preaches several paths to God, each one as valid as others. Which gospel are you referring to, may I ask ? I thought it was the shed blood of Christ that saved.[/qipte]

How do you know this? What ways does Barbara Brown Taylor say a person can find God?

Do you believe Barbara Brown Taylor is a Baptist? This thread is about Baptists.

What have you read by her? Have you read any of her books?

I went to her site. Read for myself.

Are you a Baptist ? Could you link to a statement of faith from your church ?

If you have to ask this question, then you need to study.

How in the world do you think God's Kingdom is extended ... by doing what is said in the first post.



Do a bit of research and find out.

Nope. You made the claim. Back it up. I thought Paul told us to preach Christ, and him crucified. What is this "message of Christ" you are talking about, I ask again.

And I ask again, for a list of politically influential Baptists.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

What is a Baptist?
We are Baptist because we believe that the Baptist distinctives are biblical. Here are the traditional Baptist beliefs as supported by Scripture. We are an Independent Baptist Church, which means the church is governed and supported exclusively from within.
Biblical Authority
The Bible is the final and absolute authority in all matters of faith and practice. Scripture is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Whatever it affirms, we accept as true and authoritative for our lives. The Living Word, Jesus Christ, is Head of the Church (Colossians 1:18) and governs it by His written Word (John 17:17) and His indwelling Holy Spirit (1 John 2:27) in the lives of Christians.
Autonomy of the Local Church
The local church is an independent body accountable to its Head, the Lord Jesus Christ. The church is self-governing (autonomous). All human authority for governing the local church is found within the local church itself. The church itself, not a pope or synod of elders, is the pillar and support of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15).
Priesthood of the Believer
Every believer is a priest before God (1 Peter 2:5, 9) with equal access to enter His presence in prayer through our Great High Priest and Mediator, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5). The believer-priest has the responsibility to minister to other believers, to lead a holy life, and to offer sacrifices of praise, of gifts, and of himself (Hebrews 13:15-16; Romans 12:1-2).
Two Ordinances
The local church should practice two ordinances: (1) baptism of believers by immersion in water, identifying the individual with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, and (2) the Lord’s Supper (communion) as a remembrance of the work of Christ until His kingdom (Matthew 26:26-28; 28:19-20).
Individual Soul Liberty
Each individual Christian has the right of private judgment in spiritual matters (Romans 14:5). Soul liberty rests upon the Spirit-given ability of each believer to interpret Scripture (1 Corinthians 2:14-16). However, this liberty does not exempt one from responsibility to the Word of God and its proper interpretation or from accountability to God Himself.
Saved, Baptized Church Membership
Local church membership is restricted to those who give a credible testimony of personal faith in Christ alone and have publicly identified themselves with Him in believer’s baptism (Acts 2:41, 47).
Two Offices
The Bible mandates but two offices for the local church: pastor/elder/overseer and deacon (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Philippians 1:1). There is no hierarchy outside the local church.
Separation of Church and State
God established with distinct purposes both the church (Matthew 28:19-20) and civil government (Romans 13:1-7). One should not control the other, nor should there be any alliance between the two (Matthew 22:21). Christians in a free society may properly influence their government toward righteousness.

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache...=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&lr=lang_en&client=firefox-a

The last sentence in that quote seems to be in juxtaposition of your O/P.

 

[Salty]

So it seems like Baptists should not:

Vote
hold public office
serve in the military
pay taxes
refuse to testify in court
ect,ect,ect

 

[Crabtownboy]

nor should there be any alliance between the two

I guess you missed that part of the statement. There has been a close alliance between the GOP and many conservative Christians the past 30 years. There was an unhealthy alliance between the Democrats and the conservative Christians in the South when I was a kid. We, as Christians, should try to influence our politicians, but never blindly support them because of one issue. That makes it too easy for them to manipulate Christians to their own ends and it soils the image of Christ in the eyes of many citizens of the US. That is sad.

Remember when Christian churches become too tightly connected with any political party it is not the political party nor the politicians that become clean ... it is the Christian churches that become dirtied and loose influence with the population as a whole.

This is true in any religion. We see it in Iran now, the Iranian population has rejected the clerics. The clerics will retain political power, but they have become soiled in the eyes of the people of Iran. The legitimacy the clerics enjoyed has been lost.

 

[Revmitchell]

We do not want to forget the alliance between the Democrats and liberal Christians.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I guess you missed that part of the statement. There has been a close alliance between the GOP and many conservative Christians the past 30 years. There was an unhealthy alliance between the Democrats and the conservative Christians in the South when I was a kid. We, as Christians, should try to influence our politicians, but never blindly support them because of one issue. That makes it too easy for them to manipulate Christians to their own ends and it soils the image of Christ in the eyes of many citizens of the US. That is sad.

Remember when Christian churches become too tightly connected with any political party it is not the political party nor the politicians that become clean ... it is the Christian churches that become dirtied and loose influence with the population as a whole.

This is true in any religion. We see it in Iran now, the Iranian population has rejected the clerics. The clerics will retain political power, but they have become soiled in the eyes of the people of Iran. The legitimacy the clerics enjoyed has been lost.

So what does any of that have to do with Baptists ? The preachers I listen to, Johnny Campbell, Arthur Belanger, John Havelan, among others all exposed the political parties for what they were. What Baptists are you talking about, that blindly support a political party ?

 

[Tom Bryant]

CBT,
I think you mistake the baptists of the CBF and the liberal pre-Conservative resurgence SBC for real Baptists. It's too bad.

 

[Crabtownboy]

CBT,
I think you mistake the baptists of the CBF and the liberal pre-Conservative resurgence SBC for real Baptists. It's too bad.

I grew up SBC and what the SBC teaches now is not what I was taught, not is it what Baptist have traditionally believed. For starters the SBC has become very creedal ... which means it is not really Baptist as long as it holds to such creedal teachings. They have also abandoned, for the most part, the separation of church and state ... and the leadership has moved toward a hierarchy, not in name, but in intent.

 

[Salty]

I grew up SBC and what the SBC teaches now is not what I was taught, not is it what Baptist have traditionally believed. For starters the SBC has become very creedal ... which means it is not really Baptist as long as it holds to such creedal teachings. They have also abandoned, for the most part, the separation of church and state ... and the leadership has moved toward a hierarchy, not in name, but in intent.

1. If the SBC is not teaching what you were taught, its probably because, most of the liberals have left for the CBF or Alliance of Baptists

2. What are the "creedal teachings" (other than B.A.P.T.I.S.T. )


3.) Separation of church and State means that the State (or Commonwealth) is to keep its nose out of the business of the church.
As far as the church being involved - well we are not involved enough when it comes to moral issues (ie abortion, homosexu@l, ect)
If a subject is strictly political (ie term limits,build a new road, ect) then the church should remain neutral.

4. hierarchy - I cant speak for other SBC churches, but in our church, we do not allow the association, state or SBC to control us. ie we do not support all the special mission offerings - and nothing has ever been said. Last year, I received but did not fill out the annual report - not that I refused, but it got put at the bottom of my inbox - it is about halfway up now!:laugh: - and no one has bug us about it.

Just because, I might agree with something that was voted on by one of the "broader groups" (Not higher)
does not mean they control me - only that we agree - and that is the reason we work together.

 

[Alcott]

Most Southern Baptists advocated prayer to begin a day in public school and before a football game, and a devotional at a PTA meeting. Are you claiming you were SBC-taught, yet taught contrary to these things? More important than this, are you saying you were taught according to the 1963 Baptist Faith and Message, which contains the statement that the Bible "has God for its author... and truth, without any mixture of error, for its content," and now find "inerrancy" and those who push it something undesirable, or detrimental... or false?