Where are the Fossilized Remains of Millions of Humans?

[quantumfaith]

OK, my understanding from that post was that you were denying they had access to eternal life before The Fall. God was their source for eternal life, in their sinless state. The tree of life could provide them with a source for eternal life even in their sinful state as the result of their disobedience. That's why God removed them from the Garden.

I tend to agree. From my perspective, I don't think Adam (Eve) were created to have indefinite life spans. They were to be supported (by God) through the Tree of Life. (Interesting how a tree a few millenia later, was a symbol of eternal life)

 

[quantumfaith]

Just in case you missed it, I posed a question to you.

I responded to your Paul question, I think you and I see his message and meaning differently. As for the "arch enemy", my meaning is simple....even simple enough for you. From the earliest days (beginnings) of humanity, the pain, separation and fear of death.....this has been an arch enemy of humanity.

 

[Aaron]

The question was, physical or spiritual death?

Your answer is, neither. It's the fear of death.

As your apprehension of giving straightforward answers tends to drag things out, I will cut to the chase.

You meant physical death, but when presented with the problem that if one asserts physical death is a part of creation, and is therefore deemed "good," that it therefore cannot be a real enemy, you conjure up some mumbo jumbo that denies the faith while borrowing Christian jargon.

Why don't you simply be honest and admit you do not believe Genesis?

 

[Luke2427]

The question was, physical or spiritual death?

Your answer is, neither. It's the fear of death.

As your apprehension of giving straightforward answers tends to drag things out, I will cut to the chase.

You meant physical death, but when presented with the problem that if one asserts physical death is a part of creation, and is therefore deemed "good," that it therefore cannot be a real enemy, you conjure up some mumbo jumbo that denies the faith while borrowing Christian jargon.

Why don't you simply be honest and admit you do not believe Genesis?

Believing Genesis means believing what it ACTUALLY says not what tradition has told you to believe about it.

There is NOTHING, not one THING, in that text or elsewhere that indicates that these are 24 hour periods.

The natural reading is that they are epochs of time.

 

[quantumfaith]

The question was, physical or spiritual death?

Your answer is, neither. It's the fear of death.

As your apprehension of giving straightforward answers tends to drag things out, I will cut to the chase.

You meant physical death, but when presented with the problem that if one asserts physical death is a part of creation, and is therefore deemed "good," that it therefore cannot be a real enemy, you conjure up some mumbo jumbo that denies the faith while borrowing Christian jargon.

Why don't you simply be honest and admit you do not believe Genesis?

I never meant physical death, as you imply. I have always held that the "death" to which you are discussing, (the fall) was a referent to spiritual death. Why must you be so smug? Is it a gift?

 

[percho]

I challenge all to show me anywhere in the Hebrew and or Greek of the word of God where these words stand next to one another.

physical death,

and or

spiritual death.

The day he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil he did not fall dead.

Dying thou shall die.

The physical man Adam made from the dust of the ground was cut off from the tree of life that day.

He was dead in trespasses and sins.

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

That day he was surly dead. As dead as Ole Rover who was run over. Adam was without hope until: But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Without hope until; The Just One became the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen, Faith.
Without hope until Jesus; Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Obediently gave his life on the cross. Poured out his soul unto death.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Death is death and life is life.

 

[Aaron]

Believing Genesis means believing what it ACTUALLY says not what tradition has told you to believe about it.

Well, it actually says, morning and evening and day. Doesn't say anything about epoch.

Here's some more of what it actually says:

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.​

Genesis actually says this was within the evening and morning of the Sixth Day. But since it strains nature to think of it as anything but an epoch of time, tell me how long Adam was asleep, how long the flesh was open, how many generations before the rib became a woman.

Talking about what it ACTUALLY says here.

 

[Aaron]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2045809&postcount=53

Just a reminder that the thread is about fossil evidence, which does not support "ages."

 

[Aaron]

I never meant physical death, as you imply. I have always held that the "death" to which you are discussing, (the fall) was a referent to spiritual death. Why must you be so smug? Is it a gift?

So if the grave and death aren't the same thing, why are they so intimately linked in the Scriptures?

 

[quantumfaith]

So if the grave and death aren't the same thing, why are they so intimately linked in the Scriptures?

http://biologos.org/questions/death-before-the-fall

 

[Aaron]

When time permits, I will respond in detail to the diabolical treatise to which you've linked us, but for now it is enough to show that its basic premise stated in the first paragraph is the thing disputed in this thread. The fossil "record" does NOT support the basic evolutionary tenet upon which the article rests.

 

[quantumfaith]

When time permits, I will respond in detail to the diabolical treatise to which you've linked us, but for now it is enough to show that its basic premise stated in the first paragraph is the thing disputed in this thread. The fossil "record" does NOT support the basic evolutionary tenet upon which the article rests.

You know, it just never occurred to me that it would not set well with you. Knock yourself out, convincing yourself.

 

[Aaron]

So if the grave and death aren't the same thing, why are they so intimately linked in the Scriptures?

[URL]http://biologos.org/questions/death-before-the-fall[/URL]

The whole of the article rests on the fallacious premise stated in the first sentence:

Humans appear very late in the history of life. The fossil record clearly shows that many creatures died before humans appeared.
​

Details are unnecessary. The article itself very clearly says that a straightforward reading of the Scriptures contradicts its premise in the second sentence.

This appears to conflict with Bible passages which describe death as a punishment for human sinfulness.
​

So there really is no question about the testimony of the Scriptures. The goal of the article is to reconcile them with the patently unscriptural premise by reinterpreting the Scriptures according to a Darwinistic hermeneutic.

But the thing being debated in this thread is the fossil record itself. Does it "clearly show" that death was in the world before Adam? The same people would say that it clearly shows that dinosaurs died out millions of years before the advent of modern animals, including man. The originator of the thread assumed as much, trusting that he had been told a complete, unbiased story about the fossile record. The article to which I'm linking the readers shows 1) the originator's assumption was wholly incorrect, that no fossils of modern animals are being found, and 2) that they are found existing at the same time as the dinosaurs.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2045809&postcount=53

 

[Luke2427]

Well, it actually says, morning and evening and day. Doesn't say anything about epoch.

We use the same kind of language today- almost always figuartively.

"On the eve of WWII..."

"The Industrial Revolution marked the DAWNING of a new day..."

"As the sun set upon the bloody Civil War and rose upon a day of freedom for all Americans..."

The word "day" OFTEN means epoch, so... you kinda missed it there, Bud.

 

[percho]

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14

Before Adam was created it is stated that this was determined.

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:19,20 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Is that blood spoken of above and the slain spoken of above the through death spoken of in Heb 2:14?

Why before Adam was created was death being addressed?

Was Adam created in a manner by which 1 Peter 1:19,20 and Rev 13:8 and Hebrews 2:14 could come about in order for what to be created could therefore be redeemed?

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18

Darkness and the power of Satan, death are associated together and are the opposite of God and light.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. From Gen 1:2

Was Satan, darkness and death present on the earth when God said let there be light?

When and in what manner did Satan acquire the power of death?

 

[Aaron]

We use the same kind of language today- almost always figuartively.

"On the eve of WWII..."

"The Industrial Revolution marked the DAWNING of a new day..."

It doesn't say "new" day. It says first day, second day, third day, etc. Can you cite a scripture elsewhere where a numbered day is used figuratively?

But you're avoiding my question.

Did God put Adam in a deep sleep? Did He open Adam's flesh and remove a rib? Did he fashion a woman therefrom? Just asking about what it ACTUALLY says, bud.

 

[percho]

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18
Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. John 11:9,10

In John 11:9,10 is Jesus speaking of day and night because the sun comes up and sets or is he speaking of walking in the light of God and the darkness of Satan? Yet Jesus speaks of this day and night containing 12 hours of day, light and I assume that would leave 12 hours of night, darkness.

Why did God divide the light spoken into presence which he saw as good from the darkness that was already present in verse 2 when Spirit the God moved and spoke in presence?

Is this not the same day and night spoken of in John 11? A twenty four hour period?

 

[quantumfaith]

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Acts 26:18
Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him. John 11:9,10

In John 11:9,10 is Jesus speaking of day and night because the sun comes up and sets or is he speaking of walking in the light of God and the darkness of Satan? Yet Jesus speaks of this day and night containing 12 hours of day, light and I assume that would leave 12 hours of night, darkness.

Why did God divide the light spoken into presence which he saw as good from the darkness that was already present in verse 2 when Spirit the God moved and spoke in presence?

Is this not the same day and night spoken of in John 11? A twenty four hour period?

We might have to adjust the number of hours. Astronomical measures measure the time of our day as 23 H, 56 M 4.0905 S

 

[percho]

We might have to adjust the number of hours. Astronomical measures measure the time of our day as 23 H, 56 M 4.0905 S

Jesus was close enough for horseshoes.:jesus:

 

[quantumfaith]

Jesus was close enough for horseshoes.:jesus:

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: