Where Arminians should critique Calvinism

[ascund]

Hey Bob

Maybe you like that sort of thing! I myself prefer not to "avoid scripture" as you have done with Romans 2 and Romans 11.

What a laugher!

I've shown you at least three times how you botch Roman 2 by ignoring the 1:18-3:19 unit that condemns all self-righteousness.

Much easier is exposing your errant view of Romans 11 since that clearly deals with national Israel. You make the same error that you criticize the Calvinists of doing. Do you realize how you say YES and NO to suit the thread of the post? Huh?

But this shows the shallowness of cut and paste stuff in forums. You simply ignore it all and go hunting for another cut and paste. TEN THOUSAND mindless posts ignoring context isn't much of a record. How many times have you posted your ignorance on Roman 2 and Roman 11? 8000 times?

This is the trademark of Arminians. Blind to the the telephone pole in their own theological eyes, they feel confident looking for the sawdust in the Calvinistic eye.

Lloyd

 

[BobRyan]

The fact that scripture posted is simply dismissed as "mindless" leaves me wondering what you DO consider "of value" if not the Word of God!

I am surprised that Calvinists would use such tactics.

In the mean time - back to the Word.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Starting at the link for the top of this page --

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1540/10.html#000135

See Romans 2:4-13 posted EXACTLY as found in the NASB AND we see detailed comments Exposing the "incovinient facts" of scripture that so oppose the Calvinist conjecture.

This devastating argument against Calvinism succeeds because so far - Calvinists like Lloyd have been "unnable" to allow themselves to actually QUOTE THE TEXT - or look a the points raised!!

How much more obvious can this be!!?

The run-and-hide model that Lloyd is using in response to the DETAILS highlighted in Romans 2 -- could not be considered "compelling" in any venue that I know of EXCEPT possibly Calvinist-to-Calvinist.

Are there any Arminians here who consider the vaccuous dodge-duck-and-run antics given as "a response" to Romans 2... a "compelling response" in this debate venue?

Or is that whine-and-run form of debate the new standard for our Calvinist posters?

What is up guys?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[ascund]

Hey Bob

Run and hide?? Since when is CONTEXT run and hide? It nicely exposes your force fit exegesis of Rom 2:4-13.

Do you actually think you can keep the law? The rest of Romans denies your foolish claim. We are all sinners that will stand condemned in our own self-righteousness.

Only a Christ-denying human-centered theology could make Rom 2 the basis of a theological system. It is a system of death. No one can comply. Yet you blindly adhere to denominational rhetoric in the face of the clear denunciation of the rest of Romans. CONTEXT RULES!

Every time you post this foolishness you are exposed for denying God's Word.

Run and hide? Only when you have your head in the sands.

CONTEXT - Bob - you are knocking your head against a Rock.
Lloyd

 

[BobRyan]

Ahh - the devastating case made in the following "details to be avoided" by our OSAS and Calvinist brethren.

Here those unanswered points are "again".

What a fantastic thing for me to have the freedom to SEE the text and others to merely post vaccuous responses text-devoid and complaining about those who do post text-rich Bible-centered points. Points that go unanswered for post after post after post after ...

I could not have asked for a more perfect scenario illustrating the failure of the opposition.

REally!

No Partiality – for Christians –

God shows no partiality between unsaved people. (Unsaved Jews vs Unsaved Gentiles)

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Acts 10:34
[ Gentiles Hear Good News ] Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,

God shows no partiality in determining who goes to heaven – who is justified.
Romans 2:11
For there is no partiality with God.


No partiality in God between believers.
Ephesians 6:9
And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

We are to SHOW no partiality.
1 Timothy 5:21
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
James 2:1
[ The Sin of Partiality ] My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism.

Many are reading that section of Romans 2:1-11 above for the first time – with eyes open to details.

Notice the "text" perhaps for the first time – as it speaks about our IMPARTIAL God whose process of judging in the matter of salvation (and IN the context of the call to repentance (Rom 2:4)) "results" in some saved and some lost JUST as He describes IN Romans 2...

Rom 2
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Let "the text" speak.

#1. Romans 2 provides BOTH successful and failing cases for BOTH Jews and Gentiles.

#2. Romans 2 SAYS they are ALL judged based on DEEDS and the RESULT of that impartial judgment is that SOME fail and some succeed.

This is devastating to Calvinism.

#3. Romans 3 is IN the GOSPEL CONTEXT of the kindness and goodness of God - and the call to repentance.

This means that WITHIN the Gospel scenario there IS impartial JUDGMENT that results in SOME having eternal life and some not.

#4. Paul declares that the JUDGMENT is "according to my gospel". The judgment he speaks of is part of the Gospe.

#5. The Judgment results in "JUSTIFICATION" according to the text. It does not simply happen in a Gospel VOID where ALL those judged are condemned because of course - ALL are sinners.

#6. The DEEDS mentioned are the same FRUITs of MAtt 7 that Christ shows as "determining" outcoming.

#7 The ENTIRE thing is said to occur in an impartial manner and is GUARANTEED to be impartial because GOD HIMSELF is impartial when it comes to salvation according to Rom 2:11

The "obvious" point in both Romans 2 and Matt 7 is that it is NOT a scenario where God "arbitrarily selects out from among the doomed a few to FAVOR".

Both texts are going out of their way to START within the context of the Gospel and to SHOW that in that context of the goodness of God as our Father - and the call to repentance and forgiveness - WE HAVE a judgment of "deeds" where some fail and some pass.

It is NOT the more "general" case of Romans 3 where ALL are condemned WITHOUT the need for a "future judgment" since ALL have sinned.

Why treat ALL in this way?

ANSWER: Because "God is not partial"??


How then does Calvinism accept this chapter?

ANSWER: It does not. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by ascund:


Run and hide?? Since when is CONTEXT run and hide? It nicely exposes your force fit exegesis of Rom 2:4-13.

Not that you have yet posted anything that you deem worthy to defend as an actual response to the many points made and unanswered so far.

But suppose we engage in a little foolishness for a minute and pretend that you are serious in your post above.

Are you claiming that you DID AN EXEGETICAL and DETAILED response to the points raised in Romans 2 FROM THE TEXT of ROMANS 2????

If so -- all you have to do is post the link.

SHOW that the salient point of your post had SUBSTANCE rather than the mind-numbing repetition of "hot air", obfuscation, misdirection and rabit-trailing that is currently serving as your "gold standard".

Just post the link and SHOW how the "inconvenient texts" were "dealt with" and responded to ---

So far you have nothing but a set of windy and pointless text-devoid responses to hold up as "evidence".

Make a point that you will defend please.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[ascund]

Hey Bob

What a laugher. You haven't posted anything that fits with the overarching context of the first unit in romans (after the introduction).

In a simple summary: unit 1 shows God's condemnation on all Christ-denying human-centered self-righteousness.

I can't help it you are blind to this and force your Christ-denying theology upon it. All I can do is lead you to the water. I can't make you drink it.

So, ball in your court. It is I who accuse you of windy pointless text-devoid responses! You are exposed at every post!

Quit denying Christ - repent!
Lloyd

 

[ascund]

Greetings

Jesus is SURETY. What does this mean?

Jesus is the Surety of the New Covenant (Heb 7:22). The definition of a surety is:
1) security against loss or damage or for the fulfillment of an obligation, the payment of a debt, etc.: a pledge, guaranty, or bond.
2) a person who has made himself responsible for another, as a sponsor, godparent, or bondsman.
3) the state or quality of being sure.
4) certainty.
5) that which makes sure; ground of confidence or safety.
6) a person who is legally responsible for the debt, default, or delinquency of another.
7) assurance, esp. self-assurance.”

A surety is one who stands in place of another guaranteeing that a certain engagement will be faithfully performed. This happens all the time in the financial world. If my son wants to buy a car in his own name but doesn’t have sufficient funds, then he needs help. When I step forward and agree to co-sign his bank note, the bank changes its view towards my son. When he drives off with his new car everyone is happy. But let’s say that some months down the road that my son can’t pay his monthly bill. Does he lose his car? Not as long as I’m the co-signer of his bank note. When he can’t pay, the bank comes after me. It is my first responsibility to pay the bank and only then do I have the responsibility to help my son avoid this sort of thing in the future. Of course, even if he flatly refuses to pay the bank note, I will do it out of legal covenantal obligation (at the minimum) and (at the maximum) I will do it out of family love. This pauper is my son! My son’s bank note is as sure as my ability to back him up. This is a very close picture of God’s dealings with us pitiful humans.

The same scenario happens for believers. Jesus is the surety (co-signer) of God’s new covenant. Since believers’ credit has been irreparably damaged we all need help. When Jesus stepped forward as the co-signer of the new contract, God changed His view towards those who believe in Jesus. But let’s say that some time down the road these believers can’t fulfill their responsibilities to God. They stop reading their Bibles, stop witnessing, stop praying, stop confessing their sins, fall into various besetting sins, lose heart, drift away, and even apostatize. Do they lose their salvation? Not as long as Jesus is the co-signer of the new covenant. When believers can’t fulfill their responsibilities towards God, Jesus fulfills the requirements for them. Of course, future rewards will be adjusted for present failures at Jesus’ Bema Seat.

Arminians have no place in critiquing the sawdust in the Calvinist eye until they fix the telephone pole in their own eye.

Free Grace Theologian
(Neither Calvinist nor Arminian)
Lloyd

 

[ascund]

Hey David

I’m a late comer to the topic. I usually defend OSAS topics. But I’ve noticed bad boy Bob lurks here as well. Hard to believe he & I share something in common – neither one of us are Calvinists. However, he is nothing more than a Christ-denying Arminian while I'm a Christ honoring Free Grace Theologian.

Originally posted by David Ekstrom:
Corporate election" is an attempt to explain away Eph. 1, that, IMO, misses the mark quite badly.

David, I customarily use Eph 1 as a basis of inclusion in God’s corporate election of Jesus Christ. For me, Jesus was elected to be the center of redemption. All who wish may freely enter in.

So how does it this miss the mark?

OldRegular’s lengthy post was quite good but returned to Eph 1 at critical points. Other “chosen” passages have a qualifier as “through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thess 2:13). While his post is good, it goes all over the place as he fails to provide unifying outline and misses several things for which I have a ready answer.

Give your response a decent shot for me if you would. Thanks in advance.

Saved through voluntary free will faith in Jesus Who was Elected from the foundation of the world as the door to salvation in God’s covenantal community.
Lloyd

 

[4His_glory]

Lloyd,

The fundamental differnce between you and those of us that belive in unconditional election is the depravity of man.

Does man have a "free" will? Certainly man has will, but that will is not free. It is in bondage to sin, how can a enslaved will do anything righteous? How can an enslaved will do that wich glorifies God and choose salvation? It can't, unless God enables it to do so.

This discussion regarding election will always come back to how sinful is man?

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

I would be the first to admit that God is all knowledgeable but does this mean that nothing escapes His knowing?
These verses would certainly suggest that he wasn't to sure about Sodom and Gomorrah. Otherwise why would God have to go see for Him self?.
Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[ascund]

Hey Bob

I have more "run and hide" stuff straight from God's Word in the Event vrs Process Justification thread.

More stuff from which you can run and hide." This stuff is on sanctification.

Arminians not only botch justification, their errant view on justification is wrongly conflated with sanctification. Thus, you need help with the basic definitions of both words.

So, as I did with the word "justification," so also have I done with the word "sanctification." Why don't you go there and read my latest lexical analysis. Note that this is God's Word, not presuppositions thrust upon God's Word. The difference is critical.

Arminians should not criticize Calvinists until they can figure out justification. Can you imagine Jesus' humor as an Arminian with telephone poles in his eyes wants to remove some sawdust in the Calvinists eyes!

Jesus' humor is really insightful!

Lloyd - a Free Grace theologian! Neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

 

[ascund]

Greetings

Most roads (likes the ones in North Dakota) are built higher than the surrounding landscape for water runoff. I know of this one road (the WAY) headed straight to heaven. From my Free Grace perspective I see both my Calvinist and Arminian friends walk of faith as follows.

On the one side, the landscape is just below the surface of the WAY. In fact, my Calvinist friends often walk the WAY with one foot on the landscape and the other foot on the WAY. It is a rather awkward uneven walk. However, they manage to reach their destination in spite of this difficulty.

The other side of the WAY is quite different. There is a sheer drop off into a deep gully full of water, briars, rubble and blockades. The gully is so deep that the sun does not shine there. Those in that gully cannot actually see the WAY and walk in darkness. They can barely see the signs pointing to the WAY. My Arminian friends have great difficulties in proceeding to the end. There are all sorts of handicaps in the depths of that gully: despair, uncertainty, no hope, self-righteousness, and unwitting denial of Christ.

Incomprehensibly and incredulously, Arminians dare lob caustic theological remarks at the Calvinists for their uneven predetermined walk on the WAY when they are trusting in their own self-righteous abilities and stumbling in the darkness over tremendous obstacles such as justification and sanctification.

Free Grace theologian
Lloyd
(Neither Calvinist nor Arminian)

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by ascund:

I have more "run and hide" stuff straight from God's Word in the Event vrs Process Justification thread.

"Been there" -- posted reams of scripture -- AND noted all the unanswered scripture your latest sets of posts CONTINUES to ignore.

Heb 12
14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Game over Lloyd!

Lloyd
Arminians should not criticize Calvinists until they can figure out justification.

You sound more like a 4 point Calvinist every day Lloyd.

You sure you are not CAlvinist.

'Cause the Arminians AND The 3 and 5 point Calvinists could never swallow the 4 point position you keep promoting as you deny perseverance bro.

Lloyd said
Can you imagine Jesus' humor as an Arminian with telephone poles in his eyes wants to remove some sawdust in the Calvinists eyes!

Calvinism is always good for jokes - I will give you that Lloyd. No contest!

Since you seem to have an interest in Matt 7 in your joke above ...

Matt 7
13 "" Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 ""For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Christ argues that the saved are NOT the majority of mankind. (Not a big surprise to anyone watching the news or going outside their homes each week).

Christ reliably points out that the gate is SMALL and the way NARROW as indicative of the fact that FEW are making that choice while the MANY are making the choice of the WIDE way that leads to “destruction”.

This is telling, for the "chosen people of God" whom God Himself had sovereignly "chosen" - for in that context - to HIS OWN (John 1) Christ speaks and declares that among EVEN that group - WIDE is the way that leads to destruction. So it is true in the earth for as Peter says “if it is with difficulty that the elect are saved..”

1 Peter 4
17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18 AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for MANY, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and SHALL NOT BE ABLE" Luke 13:24

Notice that the command is NOT to God telling God "please STRIVE to get your chosen people to enter by the narrow gate -" nor is the command to a select group who “can only BE the elect”. (No such filter exists). RATHER the command is to US (the group having within it – the MANY and the FEW). - To God's own church telling us to choose to STRIVE, to make effort, to focus energy on entering the narrow gate and using as the “motivation” the DANGER of not doing so (explicitly identified in the text), The danger is not “supposed” but is perfectly and explicitly stated. INSTEAD of placing the DIFFERENCE between success and failure on God who DID make some enter vs God who DID NOT make others enter nor is it on God who made some strive and did not make others strive. The command is to the group having the MANY and the FEW. The text shows plainly that God has provided for success and now it is the choice of man to choose to strive or not - choice that God gives him. Choice that is being “compelled” by the argument regarding success and failure.

Any time argument, motive, compelling facts are used to influence a choice – you have explicit Arminianism.

As Peter says "For if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved - what of those who do not obey" .


The instruction above is to the audience - to the listener - the reader.

And then what follows is instruction to the reader/listener about OTHERS - how to judge OTHERS. Seems kind of amazing given the way this chapter starts out.

15 ""Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 ""You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 ""So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 ""So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Fascinating truths.

#1. There is on “nice” way to get rid of all the “bad trees” from the group Christ is speaking to – so He helps them “identify” the “wolves in sheep’s clothing”.

#2. The Gospel change is from the INSIDE OUT - not from the OUTSIDE
in. The FRUIT (the external ACTIONS that are SEEN) are simply the RESULTS of what has ALREADY been done on the INSIDE once one chooses to believe, chooses repentance, chooses to yield to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit.

Christ says "A bad tree bears BAD fruit" - believe it. First we must appeal to the creator - to CREATE in us a CLEAN HEART, a NEW HEART, a NEW CREATION so that OLD things are passed away and ALL things are become new - THEN we will see the FRUIT "Christ IN YOU" for it will then be "No longer I who LIVE (act, work) but Christ who LIVES IN ME". Gal 2:20.

Yet today many "expect" the tree to be "good" even though the fruit is bad - even though one is lost in rebellion. At other times they want the "tree to be bad" even though the fruit is "good" and the person is seen to be "putting to death the deeds of the flesh by the Holy Spirit" Romans 8.

Christ rejects those ideas in this chapter.

Matt 7
21 "" Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

=================================

22 "" Many will say to Me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 ""And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

The scope again - is for EVERYONE. Seldom will we find people willing quote all 3 of these verses of scripture together for the implication is obvious and confronting. NOT everyone who SAYS the magic words (you may pick any magic mantra you want there) - but those that DO the will of the Father and that HEAR and OBEY the words of God. Just as Paul states in Romans 2.

Of course I am one of those people that believe that Christ IS God as well as God the Father being God).

In Christ,

Bob

 

[ascund]

Hey Bob

Originally posted by BobRyan:
The Gospel change is from the INSIDE OUT - not from the OUTSIDE in. The FRUIT (the external ACTIONS that are SEEN) are simply the RESULTS of what has ALREADY been done on the INSIDE once one chooses to believe, chooses repentance, chooses to yield to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit.

I see you haven't learned from the lexical evidences of justification.

Justification is God's activity alone.
Humans are only passive as they receive God's declarations of forgiveness and righteousness.

Is the word IMPUTE used anywhere in the Bible?
Where is the word IMPART used in the Bible?

Works from within come from God's indwelling Spirit. This is sanctification - something you missed from the lexical evidences.

Justificcation by faith in Jesus.
Sanctification (purification) by human activity.

You have things backwards - again!
Lloyd

 

[ascund]

Originally posted by Bob Ryan
Since you seem to have an interest in Matt 7 in your joke above ...

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Matt 7
13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Christ argues that the saved are NOT the majority of mankind. (Not a big surprise to anyone watching the news or going outside their homes each week).

Christ reliably points out that the gate is SMALL and the way NARROW as indicative of the fact that FEW are making that choice while the MANY are making the choice of the WIDE way that leads to “destruction”.</font>[/QUOTE]The way is small because most are trying to please God by virtue of denying Christ and putting faith in their self-righteous works.

Lloyd

 

[ascund]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Heb 12
14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Game over Lloyd!

Yes Bob but not the way you think. Did you fail to see that sanctification has three definitions? The act of being set aside is strictly God's activity?

Humans are only involved in consecration and purification.

The very verse you bring shows that one must be "set aside" by God. Context Bob! Without it you cannot please God!

Lloyd

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Heb 12
14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Game over Lloyd!

Originally posted by ascund:

Yes Bob

That was too easy!

Lloyd said
Did you fail to see that sanctification has three definitions? The act of being set aside is strictly God's activity?

Humans are only involved in consecration and purification.

If your argument is that the sanctification mentioned in Heb 12 is in fact ongoing and future "consecratin and purification" (and in fact growing into the image of Christ, the fullness of the measure that belongs to Christ etc) - then we STILL see HUMANS involved in Sanctification.

We STILL see it as ongoing and future.

And ... "game over" as already noted.

Details Lloyd - details!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
The Gospel change is from the INSIDE OUT - not from the OUTSIDE in. The FRUIT (the external ACTIONS that are SEEN) are simply the RESULTS of what has ALREADY been done on the INSIDE once one chooses to believe, chooses repentance, chooses to yield to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by ascund:

Justification is God's activity alone.

Wrong again Lloyd.

I see you have forgotten your OWN confession that that sinner must ACTIVELY BELIEVE and CHOOSE Christ to be justified!

Lloyd

Humans are only passive as they receive God's declarations of forgiveness and righteousness.

If you are slicing and dicing the EVENT so that you START right AFTER the sinner CHOOSES Christ - then we have a sinner ALREADY in the state of surrender and acceptance. A sinner aLREADY choosing Christ - that is then justified.

Nice game. And of course IF you want to slice it like that - then I would agree that what happens as a result - is God's act of justification.

But EVEN THEN - the sinner must CHOOSE TO REMAIN in that surrendered state! And as scripture points out the WORK of God is to BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ!

Lloyd
Is the word IMPUTE used anywhere in the Bible?
Where is the word IMPART used in the Bible?

If you have a point - make it.

The imputed righteousness of Christ is the righteousness that God give at the point of conversion. It is not man's acquired character change or transformation as he walks by the spirit putting to death the deads of the flesh.
.

Lloyd
Justificcation by faith in Jesus.
Sanctification (purification) by human activity.

But not by "human activity alone"

Agreed but that requires humanity active in BOTH cases.

 

[ascund]

Hey Bob

You simply don't get it. The basis of our righteousness does not come from within. It resides strictly and wholly in Jesus Christ. God is only pleased with Jesus' righteousness.

If we are to be pleasing to God, then it must be by our union IN CHRIST. We become the very righteousness of Christ by IMPUTATION alone. Did you do a word search on this powerful word? If you ever want to rightly divide God's Word you'll have to do this simple task at least once. More if you can't figure it out.

Once justified by faith, then we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Faith in Jesus leads to justification. Obedient faith leads to purification.

Rom 5:1 We are justified (past tense, passive voice) by faith. You want to supplant Christ's righteousness with human righteousness. This is the anti-gospel.

It is rather obtuse to confuse the idea of activity. You convert the activity of the LOOK of faith (Jesus' illustration of the brazen serpent) to a full fledged system of works. This is the anti-gospel.

The LOOK to Jesus is the equivalent to a decision. It has no works associated with it. There is no baptism, circumcision, sacrifice etc. This is justificaiton by faith!

When you cannot understand the key concepts of justification and sanctification, then your preach the anti-gospel.

Lloyd