Where did the Lord Condemn ALL drinking of alcohol in Bible?

[preacher4truth]

It's all your fault AmyG....he was being cordial and nice, until you provoked him:thumbs:

Yes. Amy has that gift of provoking!

 

[jbh28]

.
Then you missed the other thread.


Can you say that for 100% certainty? No you can't. I saw the admission to it, I didn't need to prove it. But you made a statement without verifying why I made the statement that I did. "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it is folly and shame unto him". Prov 18:13 There goes your "untruth #1".

if that's true, then I stand corrected. I've never seen anyone say that being drunk is ok. But if you saw it, then I stand corrected.

It's called irresistible grace. No matter which way you try and make it sound pallatible to people with common sense who are shocked by it, if a person can not be saved by freely coming to Christ, and that grace can not be resisted, that is FORCE whether you admit or not. You not liking the conclusion doesn't make it false, it makes you blind and brainwashed.

Again, Calvinist do not teach that you are saved against you will. And of course grace can be resisted, every Calvinist has said that. I'm not a fan of the term because it doesn't really represent the teaching very well. however, not really on topic. However, my point still stands, Calvinist don't teach what you said here.

Again ignoring the obvious here captain. Calvinists often site Acts 13:48 as evidence that when God ordains an elected person they WILL BE saved.

true...

Thus if to be ordained to something means you WILL DO IT, then Calvinist inconsistently apply their method of interpretation to Ephesians 2:10, and dance it around like you just did because Calvinist are afraid to face the illogical consequences of a faulty belief system just like a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness.

First, no reason to equate Calvinism with cults. Second, no Calvinist disagrees that we are created for good works. so again you are wrong. Quit trying to slander your brothers in Christ. Just because you disagree doesn't give you the right to write as you have.

Well since you preordained my response, then I guess you have to be right. Typical Calvinist logic, ask someone to do something, then tell them they can't do it, and then hold them accountable for what you told them they can't do. Almost similar to your soteriology.

Then do it. don't mock me and then not be able to produce one copy where someone said being drunk was ok.

Just like the typical Calvie's, you missed the boat on attempting to identify my "errors". Not once did I ever say that ALL drinking was wrong, I laid out the verses for drunkenness, and then glorifying, praising and PRACTICING drinking, but again, you only see what you want.

My apologies. The OP asked for verses saying all drinking was wrong and you quoted verses. I made an assumption that you were answering the OP. What is your position then so I don't misrepresent you.

 

[preacher4truth]

Glad to hear we agree

Hopefully though you can agree as well that Dr. Pepper is gross..

I was joking about the vodka BTW










...kinda

I won't tell anyone! :thumbs:

 

[DrJamesAch]

Right here you say a Christian has no excuse to "practice" drinking. You didn't say practice drunkenness.

To practice drinking could be something as simple as having one glass of wine a day. There is no sin in that, but you have just stated that it is.


So yes Dr., you DID say ALL drinking is wrong.

Do you know what the word PRACTICE means? Something that one does habitually, and it is clear in the context of all of the verses that I used that practicing drinking is used toward the practice of glorifying, praising practicing the drinking of alcohol for the purpose of getting high off of it. You American's are much more liberal with your views of what moderation means than what the Bible ever intended.

 

[RLBosley]

However, it is EXACTLY those qualifications that matter.

But that doesn't change the fact that the alcohol was allowed at that occasion. Thus God cannot be against alcoholic consumption entirely as He at the bare minimum made this exception. (If indeed an exception must be made) I'm not saying we meet those requirements, I'm just trying to show the error of saying that God entirely forbids alcohol in all circumstances.

It is, in fact, more of a medicinal use to be done at ONE time. This section of Deuteronomy is found in a greater section dealing with dietary and tithe laws.

I'll have to take your word on that as I haven't studied that passage in a while.

There is no place for the believer (outside of medicinal oversight) to engage in any intoxicants.

The whole and soul expressed purpose of the intoxicant is not to quench some thirst, but to intoxicate (which is why it is called an intoxicant).

Give strong drink to those who have no hope, but mine is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

So Paul told Timothy to get drunk because he had no hope?

I won't tell anyone! :thumbs:

'preciate it.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Weeeeeellllll, I'm coming late to this conversation. (been on vacation. Still am for that matter) But I gotta ask:

Does it REALLY make ME a Calvinist if I believe there is no evidence in scripture for an absolute ban on alcohol for Christians??



Iconoclast, you and your fellow Calvinists watch out!! You got a universalist leaning Arminian headed your way!!

:laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

Do you know what the word PRACTICE means?

Yes and I gave you an example of it.

You American's are much more liberal with your views of what moderation means than what the Bible ever intended.

Americans aren't nearly as liberal about alcohol as some other countries.

And what is your view of moderation?

Is a glass of wine a day moderate?

 

[Amy.G]

Does it REALLY make ME a Calvinist if I believe there is no evidence in scripture for an absolute ban on alcohol for Christians??

Yes. It also means you smoke weed and go to movies. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[DrJamesAch]

..

if that's true, then I stand corrected. I've never seen anyone say that being drunk is ok. But if you saw it, then I stand corrected.

Again, Calvinist do not teach that you are saved against you will. And of course grace can be resisted, every Calvinist has said that. I'm not a fan of the term because it doesn't really represent the teaching very well. however, not really on topic. However, my point still stands, Calvinist don't teach what you said here.

When you say Calvinists don't teach that, you are claiming to represent all of the Calvinist divisions. Calvinism as a whole teaches that grace is irresistible, and can not be resisted. It's fundamental to the TULIP system. Perhaps you are one in particular (no pun intended) that disagrees, and if so, you would be in the minority. Spurgeon, Pink, Sproul, Piper would disagree.

true...First, no reason to equate Calvinism with cults. Second, no Calvinist disagrees that we are created for good works. so again you are wrong. Quit trying to slander your brothers in Christ. Just because you disagree doesn't give you the right to write as you have.

But it's OK to call the IFB a cult, and those who believe in King James Only a "KJVO cult" but you all get offended if I refer some of your tactics to be cultish. :thumbs: Admittedly, that parts not your fault, you weren't the one that said it. (P4T and a few others did).

My apologies. The OP asked for verses saying all drinking was wrong and you quoted verses. I made an assumption that you were answering the OP. What is your position then so I don't misrepresent you

My position is exactly what the verses stated. Paul told Timothy to use a LITTLE wine for his stomach's sake, that ministers were not to drink MUCH wine, and that drunkenness is sin. But there are also other caveats that may be somewhat adiaphora, where something that may be permissible to one, is unwise for another. A person that was once a drunkard, should not tempt themselves by drinking wine.

 

[agedman]

So Paul told Timothy to get drunk because he had no hope?

Paul (probably under the guidance of the physician Luke who was traveling with Paul) told Tim to take a LITTLE wine for the weak stomach.

That is not Tim being given permission to get drunk, nor even taking a gulp.

It is specific - a little wine. Just as one may take any other medicine for an ailment.

Before heart medications came along, Dr.'s regularly prescribed a little drink to help with the medical condition.

Such verses are used by those who look for any excuse, just like that in the Deuteronomy passage.

It just isn't given in fact far more instruction is given to beware and avoid the power of drink.

 

[agedman]

Folks,

I am bowing out of this thread.

Been through it all before with some of you and really have no heart to continue.

Blessings to all!

 

[RLBosley]

Paul (probably under the guidance of the physician Luke who was traveling with Paul) told Tim to take a LITTLE wine for the weak stomach.

That is not Tim being given permission to get drunk, nor even taking a gulp.

It is specific - a little wine. Just as one may take any other medicine for an ailment.

Before heart medications came along, Dr.'s regularly prescribed a little drink to help with the medical condition.

Such verses are used by those who look for any excuse, just like that in the Deuteronomy passage.

It just isn't given in fact far more instruction is given to beware and avoid the power of drink.

I pretty much agree with everything you just said. But that contradicts what you said earlier:

"The whole and soul (sic) expressed purpose of the intoxicant is not to quench some thirst, but to intoxicate (which is why it is called an intoxicant).

Give strong drink to those who have no hope, but mine is in the Lord Jesus Christ."

If the quotation from you above is true then Paul was telling Timothy to get drunk because he had no hope. That is the logical outcome of what you've said, if I understand you correctly.

 

[Aaron]

Wow. Another my-god-is-my-belly vs sacrifice-of-love thread. :thumbs:

 

[menageriekeeper]

Yes. It also means you smoke weed and go to movies. :smilewinkgrin:

Oh. Hmmm, I'm really in trouble. I've been to see two movies just this month!!

Wait!!! Is tobaccy a weed??? Or are you talking about that other southern weed?

Nevermind! I don't smoke either. ::slows my slide toward the Calvinists::

:laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Specific passages?

It was on page 33 right after that twelth comma.

 

[Iconoclast]

Weeeeeellllll, I'm coming late to this conversation. (been on vacation. Still am for that matter) But I gotta ask:

Does it REALLY make ME a Calvinist if I believe there is no evidence in scripture for an absolute ban on alcohol for Christians??



Iconoclast, you and your fellow Calvinists watch out!! You got a universalist leaning Arminian headed your way!!

:laugh:

Hello MK,
Welcome back to the fun....lol...You are welcome with us anytime.The last day or two has been somewhat amusing among other things!

Sometimes when someone appears with radical views that are outside the mainstream it helps other believers to come together in that even with some differences we both can agree that legalism is death to church life.

Oh. Hmmm, I'm really in trouble. I've been to see two movies just this month!!

What did you see???

 

[puros_bran]

Probably not relevant to the conversation but 'strong drink' isn't liquor... Distillation wasn't discovered until well after the Bible was complete.

 

[evangelist6589]

They generally love to preach about what they don't do, like drink, go to movies, using other versions, dance, smoke, chew &c. They stay off topics where they are guilty such as gossip and gluttony.

Kind of exactly like the Pharisee v. Publican, talking about what they do and how they're not like 'sinners'.

Very well said, very well said indeed.

 

[RLBosley]

Probably not relevant to the conversation but 'strong drink' isn't liquor... Distillation wasn't discovered until well after the Bible was complete.

Really? I'll take your word on it. I correlated the two since Strong's H7941 - shekar is rendered "Strong Drink" in the KJV and is defined as:

strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or intoxicating liquor

That being said, I know nothing about the process of actually making liquor or what makes it different from other forms of alcohol.

 

[puros_bran]

Again other than a trivia question it doesn't matter. but I really like trivia

Strong Drink was most likely what we would call beer, malt liquor, mead, etc.


Liquor by definition is a distilled fermentation, usually made of grains but can be produced from most anything..

Wine and strong drink are fermentations without the increased strength of distillation.