Where did the wrath of God go?

[JonC]

I am glad to see you agree that there is a difference between what Scripture teaches and what the Anabaptists teach.

Please quote where I said there is a difference between what Scriptures teaches and what the Anabaptists teach. We can go from there.

Or....were you making a false accusation?

Please post where I confessed to being influenced by Anabaptist writings (I do not hold Anabaptist Theology).

Or....were you making false accusations?

And I absolutely agree with you. The Anabaptists do not teach Scripture when it comes to this topic.

This is a false claim. I never said that I agree or disagree with Anabaotist Theology when it comes to this topic. You are again making assumptions.

There is not one Anabaptist's view. Do you understand what the Anabaptists are and were????

My previous belief was I was an unsaved person.

So you are questioning that I (and @agedman ) are saved? You said that you once believed as we do, and now you clarify that this is belief as an unsaved person.

You are wrong. You accuse me, agedman, all Christians who lived, as holding belief "as an unsaved person". Yet all we have done was rely on Scripture. Our interpretations can be wrong, but at least we are interpreting what is written.

And, I seriously doubt that as a lost man you believed Christ bore your sins bodily, that He died for you, and that through Him you have eternal life.

There was never a time when PSA was viewed as anything but truth.

Sure there was. Augustine taught that the belief Christ's death was to appease God is heresy. Justin Martyr taught that Christ suffered under the powers of evil for the whole human family. Penal Substitution Theory did mot even exist before the 16th Century.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The only part of your theory I think is wrong is what you add to God's Word.

I know the prohibition against adding to Scripture technically applies to Revelation, but nevertheless those who teach others will be held to a greater accountability.

For this reason, when we speak of foundational doctrines I believe in sticking closer to what is written in Scripture than you will allow.

I do not hold it against you that you consider Penal Substitution Theory as being taught by Scripture.

But you and I hold a different standard when it comes to testing doctrines. And that is fine. This is actually the reason I can never accept the Theory again (for decades I read into Scripture, so there was a conflict between what I believed regarding testing doctrine and the doctrine I held at the time).

The fact that you descend into self-aggrandizement, smugness and general waffle with the slightest attempt to answer my points is a sure sign that you have no meaningful contribution to make.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Kinda. But not in the Penal Substitution Theory context. If Penal Substitution Theory were correct then there would be no necessity to the rebirth.

It is by Christ's death that man was reconciled to God, and by His life that we are saved. Man has been reconciled to God, therefore we plea that men be reconciled.

I can make no comment about your 'penal substitution theory,' but the actual doctrine of Penal Substitution absolutely requires the rebirth.

 

[JonC]

The fact that you descend into self-aggrandizement, smugness and general waffle with the slightest attempt to answer my points is a sure sign that you have no meaningful contribution to make.

Obviously you misunderstood my reply.

I am saying that I test foundational doctrines by what is written in the text of Scripture.

You do not. Many don't. There are two ideas here. You test doctrine by what you believe Scripture teaches. That is fair. It was not being smug.

 

[JonC]

I can make no comment about your 'penal substitution theory,' but the actual doctrine of Penal Substitution absolutely requires the rebirth.

I agree with a lot of what you call Penal Substitution. It becomes theory only when people add things like Christ being our substitute, experiencing God's wrath, dying instead of us, etc.

 

[JonC]

@Martin Marprelate ,

We can both point to passages that present Christ as our representative (like the "Last Adam"). You even offered an illustration of this (you speaking on behalf of other members).

Why do you believe that Christ was our substitute?

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC,

[Please quote where I said there is a difference between what Scriptures teaches and what the Anabaptists teach. We can go from there.

Or....were you making a false accusation?

Please post where I confessed to being influenced by Anabaptist writings (I do not hold Anabaptist Theology).

Or....were you making false accusations?

This is a false claim. I never said that I agree or disagree with Anabaotist Theology when it comes to this topic. You are again making assumptions.

There is not one Anabaptist's view. Do you understand what the Anabaptists are and were????]

I know who they were.lol

YOU DO NOT LIKE MY POSTS?

YOU THINK MY POSTS ARE FALSE ACCUSATIONS?

My last dozen posts were copy and paste of your posts...lol.
I just reversed what you do to us.
I copied your false accusations and pasted them back to you.
How do you like your own posts?
Look at the posts.....it is your words pasted on this page...do you see how foolish your posting is?

We asked yo u to stop doing it, but you would not....do you see why now?

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC,

[Please quote where I said there is a difference between what Scriptures teaches and what the Anabaptists teach. We can go from there.

Or....were you making a false accusation?

Please post where I confessed to being influenced by Anabaptist writings (I do not hold Anabaptist Theology).

Or....were you making false accusations?

This is a false claim. I never said that I agree or disagree with Anabaotist Theology when it comes to this topic. You are again making assumptions.

There is not one Anabaptist's view. Do you understand what the Anabaptists are and were????]

I know who they were.lol

YOU DO NOT LIKE MY POSTS?

YOU THINK MY POSTS ARE FALSE ACCUSATIONS?

My last dozen posts were copy and paste of your posts...lol.
I just reversed what you do to us.
I copied your false accusations and pasted them back to you.
How do you like your own posts?
Look at the posts.....it is your words pasted on this page...do you see how foolish your posting is?

We asked yo u to stop doing it, but you would not....do you see why now?

Good idea Iconoclast...I understand now.​

 

[JonC]

You know who Anabaptists were??!!!!

YOU DO NOT LIKE MY POSTS?

YOU THINK MY POSTS ARE FALSE ACCUSATIONS?

I do not like or dislike your posts. They have nothing to do with me but reflect your thought process.

Yes. Your posts are false claims. It goes to your ability to discern the truth of what you read.

You believed that I said the teachings of Scripture differ from Anabaptist teaching. I did not post that anywhere.

You claimed that I follow Anabaptist teachers. This is also a false claim. The only Anabaptist theologian I recall mentioning is Denny Weaver, and that not in agreement.

You then accuse me of following Reformed theology instead of Scripture. Again, a false accusation.

You backtrack to cover your errors by falsely claiming you cut and pasted my posts....you didn't. I never accused you of following Anabaptist teachers. I never said that Anabaptist teaching and Scripture were different (or the same).

Those are YOUR words, not mine.

The best you can do is say you misquoted me....or deliberately misrepresented what I posted by changing words. But then you would be a dishonest man, so that can't be right....can it?

Maybe you would do better to just stand aside and let the adults talk. I am interested in @Martin Marprelate 's understanding of substitution.

 

[Iconoclast]

You know who Anabaptists were??!!!! I do not like or dislike your posts. They have nothing to do with me but reflect your thought process.

Yes. Your posts are false claims. It goes to your ability to discern the truth of what you read.

You believed that I said the teachings of Scripture differ from Anabaptist teaching. I did not post that anywhere.

You claimed that I follow Anabaptist teachers. This is also a false claim. The only Anabaptist theologian I recall mentioning is Denny Weaver, and that not in agreement.

You then accuse me of following Reformed theology instead of Scripture. Again, a false accusation.

You backtrack to cover your errors by falsely claiming you cut and pasted my posts....you didn't. I never accused you of following Anabaptist teachers. I never said that Anabaptist teaching and Scripture were different (or the same).

Those are YOUR words, not mine.

The best you can do is say you misquoted me....or deliberately misrepresented what I posted by changing words. But then you would be a dishonest man, so that can't be right....can it?

Maybe you would do better to just stand aside and let the adults talk. I am interested in @Martin Marprelate 's understanding of substitution.

You know how you can tell they are your horrible posts..I left most of your misspellings im them,haha.

 

[JonC]

You know how you can tell they are your horrible posts..I left most of your misspellings im them,haha.

You know who Anabaptists were.

 

[Iconoclast]

You know who Anabaptists were.

In post 97...I quoted you saying...the bibke....your fat little fingers pressed the k rather than the L....lol

 

[JonC]

In post 97...I qouted you saying...the bibke....your fat little fingers pressed the k rather than the L....lol

It does that when I use my phone (most of the time). Not fat fingers....just little letters.

 

[Iconoclast]

You knowvwho Anabaptists were.

Yes..you said you read them. Did you forget?

 

[Iconoclast]

You knowvwho Anabaptists were.

Yes..you said you read them. Did you forget?

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC,

[Please quote where I said there is a difference between what Scriptures teaches and what the Anabaptists teach. We can go from there.
Or....were you making a false accusation?
Please post where I confessed to being influenced by Anabaptist writings (I do not hold Anabaptist Theology).
Or....were you making false accusations?
This is a false claim. I never said that I agree or disagree with Anabaotist Theology when it comes to this topic. You are again making assumptions.
There is not one Anabaptist's view. Do you understand what the Anabaptists are and were????]

I know who they were.lol

YOU DO NOT LIKE MY POSTS?

YOU THINK MY POSTS ARE FALSE ACCUSATIONS?

My last dozen posts were copy and paste of your posts...lol.
I just reversed what you do to us.
I copied your false accusations and pasted them back to you.
How do you like your own posts?
Look at the posts.....it is your words pasted on this page...do you see how foolish your posting is?

We asked you to stop doing it, but you would not....do you see why now?

You said we followed RC. doctrine, we said no, but you posted it 5 more times anyway.
We say our view comes from scripture, you tell us we need to read scripture. I just sent your posts back to you...lol

 

[Iconoclast]

I took quotes from this thread from your posts...If you noticed I repeated the same verses from Jn.3, each time you asked me to clarify. That is what you do to us. We ask you to clarify....you repeat .he bore our sins, he bore our sins...over and over....Then I quoted sentences and a few times direct paragraphs you posted, of course I had to switch your name for mine, so you would not catch on too fast,lol
I like your indignation as you claimed "false accusations",l ol that is exactly what you have done to each of us

 

[JonC]

JonC,

[Please quote where I said there is a difference between what Scriptures teaches and what the Anabaptists teach. We can go from there.
Or....were you making a false accusation?
Please post where I confessed to being influenced by Anabaptist writings (I do not hold Anabaptist Theology).
Or....were you making false accusations?
This is a false claim. I never said that I agree or disagree with Anabaotist Theology when it comes to this topic. You are again making assumptions.
There is not one Anabaptist's view. Do you understand what the Anabaptists are and were????]

I know who they were.lol

YOU DO NOT LIKE MY POSTS?

YOU THINK MY POSTS ARE FALSE ACCUSATIONS?

My last dozen posts were copy and paste of your posts...lol.
I just reversed what you do to us.
I copied your false accusations and pasted them back to you.
How do you like your own posts?
Look at the posts.....it is your words pasted on this page...do you see how foolish your posting is?

We asked you to stop doing it, but you would not....do you see why now?

You said we followed RC. doctrine, we said no, but you posted it 5 more times anyway.
We say our view comes from scripture, you tell us we need to read scripture. I just sent your posts back to you...lol

I never said that you followed Roman Catholic doctrine. You are making things up now. But you have been for some time now, haven't you.

What ypu "sent back" was my words with your changes. That is not being honest at all.

 

[JonC]

I took quotes from this thread from your posts...If you noticed I repeated the same verses from Jn.3, each time you asked me to clarify. That is what you do to us. We ask you to clarify....you repeat .he bore our sins, he bore our sins...over and over....Then I quoted sentences and a few times direct paragraphs you posted, of course I had to switch your name for mine, so you would not catch on too fast,lol
I like your indignation as you claimed "false accusations",l ol that is exactly what you have done to each of us

So you have been acting like a child. I get it.

But you have also been making false accusations (like saying I said you follow RC doctrine).

 

[Iconoclast]

Look at posts 101, 104...it is direct quotes from you.