Where do Babies Go When they Die - Continued

[webdog]

Well I see you did not read the last sentence. If there are any comments, please comment on all do not pick at it.

Is the word hate in bold or the purpose of God according to election? No one is using anything. Please comment on the total message. I believe it relates and works together. If not please let me know.

It is either one or the other, dying and going to heaven or being
born into the kingdom of God.

You asked a question...I answered it. The rest was the same talking points I've read before...what did you want me to say in regards to that, you're wrong? The bolded (the purpose of election in that passage) was God choosing a nation from which the Messiah would come. Has nothing to do with infants going to Heaven or Hell, being "elect", God loving the elect, hating the reprobate, etc.

 

[Luke2427]

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD.

Yes, the meek and humble are again the regenerate. They are not meek and humble before they are regenerate. God does not save them because they are meek and humble- They are meek and humble because God has saved them.

Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight. [Or will direct your paths]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.

Same.

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Same.

Romans 11:17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Same.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. [/COLOR

]

Same.

No one who is meek and humble will do as you say that is building a strawmen.

What?

 

[webdog]

This judge should be involved in our discussion

4-Year-Old Can Be Sued, Judge Rules in Bike Case

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/29/nyregion/29young.html?no_interstitial

 

[Luke2427]

If they deny we are saved by grace through faith, of course.
Rejecting Christ sends one to hell, afterall even calvinists have a flawed formula and I believe they are brothers and sisters in Christ (even if some moderators and administrators here don't feel the same about non-cal's)
Impossible according to Acts 17:26-27. We have all been placed in the exact location and place in history that is most beneficial to do just that.

I am not trying to be a smart alek here, honestly. I like you, webdog, though you are a little too snippy at times in my opinion. I am sure you think the same of me.

But to say that you consider Calvinists to be your brothers and sisters in Christ is a bit of an understatement it seems to me.

I am glad that you allow Spurgeon, Matthew Henry, Whitfield, Edwards, Luther, Calvin, Augustine, and, I think it is clear, the Apostle Paul into the family- that is awful gracious of you.:love2:

Just a funny observation. I do think you are in the family as well. Just as Wesley and Asbury and Finny and Moody were.

I think you are right- rejecting Christ does send one to hell. But it is all that the natural man can do.

I would like you to consider a scenario. One that occurred to me a few years ago that was instrumental in bringing me to Calvinism. Would you do it?

 

[webdog]

I am not trying to be a smart alek here, honestly. I like you, webdog, though you are a little too snippy at times in my opinion. I am sure you think the same of me.

I like you too...and I'm under the OT law "a snip for a snip"

But to say that you consider Calvinists to be your brothers and sisters in Christ is a bit of an understatement it seems to me.

How so? I've had a calvinist administrator and moderator on this site question my salvation through PM becuase I was not a calvinist.

I am glad that you allow Spurgeon, Matthew Henry, Whitfield, Edwards, Luther, Calvin, Augustine, and, I think it is clear, the Apostle Paul into the family- that is awful gracious of you.

Compared to the love I have received from your camp...I agree

Just a funny observation. I do think you are in the family as well. Just as Wesley and Asbury and Finny and Moody were.

Now you're being gracious...

I think you are right- rejecting Christ does send one to hell. But it is all that the natural man can do.

If it is all a man can do, he cannot be held accountable for the alternative. The very meaning of rejection does not allow for your understanding of it.

I would like you to consider a scenario. One that occurred to me a few years ago that was instrumental in bringing me to Calvinism. Would you do it?

Fire away...but back in 04 I leaned towards the dark side, so I'm familiar with most of the scenarios as I once supported them.

 

[psalms109:31]

Regenerated

Without the words of Jesus you are unregenerated and dead. You will remain that way without it. Without the words of Jesus you have no Spirit or Life.

It is His word that teaches us what is expected from us that changes us. If you reject His word you reject Spirit and Life.

This is why we are taught before Christ comes what is expected from us.

Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight. [Or will direct your paths]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.

To not to trust in our own understand but to trust in Him.

As you see the natural branches was cut our for unbelief, not for not being chosen. It also teaches us do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. By Paul Himself.

 

[Luke2427]

I like you too...and I'm under the OT law "a snip for a snip"

Fair enough.

How so? I've had a calvinist administrator and moderator on this site question my salvation through PM becuase I was not a calvinist.

I don't doubt it.

Compared to the love I have received from your camp...I agree

There is plenty of gall to go around.

From both sides.

If it is all a man can do, he cannot be held accountable for the alternative. The very meaning of rejection does not allow for your understanding of it.

But man is held accountable to do what he cannot do. He cannot keep the ten commandments. God, knowing this, commands him to keep them anyway. Then at the judgment God will hold him accountable for every one that he has broken. His works are kept in a book and God judges him by them, even though he cannot keep them. This is the clear teaching of Scripture.



Alright, here goes.

John and Jack. John goes to heaven; Jack goes to hell. Why?

 

[Luke2427]

Without the words of Jesus you are unregenerated and dead. You will remain that way without it. Without the words of Jesus you have no Spirit or Life.

It is His word that teaches us what is expected from us that changes us. If you reject His word you reject Spirit and Life.

This is why we are taught before Christ comes what is expected from us.

Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight. [Or will direct your paths]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.

To not to trust in our own understand but to trust in Him.

As you see the natural branches was cut our for unbelief, not for not being chosen. It also teaches us do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. By Paul Himself.

Man is cut off for unbelief. The natural man will always refuse to believe until he is made alive in Christ. Then, in a regenerate state, he can believe.

 

[psalms109:31]

Natural branches

Man is cut off for unbelief. The natural man will always refuse to believe until he is made alive in Christ. Then, in a regenerate state, he can believe.

The natural branches is Israel, and we gentiles are the olive branch.

I do praise God that He has opened the way for natural branches to be grafted back in.

Romans 11:23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Let us take time to break open the bread of life and be taught by God

 

[webdog]

But man is held accountable to do what he cannot do. He cannot keep the ten commandments. God, knowing this, commands him to keep them anyway. Then at the judgment God will hold him accountable for every one that he has broken. His works are kept in a book and God judges him by them, even though he cannot keep them. This is the clear teaching of Scripture.

The law was intended to point man to Christ. Faith in Christ is not the prelude to something else as the OT law was, it's the culmination of obedience. If one didn't keep the OT law, they needed an animal sacrifice to atone (appease God's wrath) for that sin, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.
John - Faith in Christ
Jack - Faith in self

 

[Luke2427]

The law was intended to point man to Christ. Faith in Christ is not the prelude to something else as the OT law was, it's the culmination of obedience. If one didn't keep the OT law, they needed an animal sacrifice to atone (appease God's wrath) for that sin, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.
John - Faith in Christ
Jack - Faith in self

But nonetheless, the natural man is told to do what he cannot do.

Now.

Why does John believe in Christ and Jack in himself?

Why does John Accept Christ and Jack reject him?

This is related to why babies go to heaven. Ultimately this discussion will show that John went to heaven for the same reason that babies go to heaven.

 

[webdog]

But nonetheless, the natural man is told to do what he cannot do.

Now.

Why does John believe in Christ and Jack in himself?

Why does John Accept Christ and Jack reject him?

He couldn't keep the law as a whole due to his nature...but he could keep each command at any given time. According to you, it would be an impossibility to do even that.


I can tell you why I did, and you can tell me why you did, but neither of us can crawl into the head of another. Now, from Scripture I can say John did not exchange the truth for a lie and Jack did. The reasons one did and one did not can only be gained from first hand knowledge of each. Now I know the common answers to this where TULIP will tell me why each believed what they did (even though it is impossible to know the mind of another), but it is purely based on faulty presuppositions.

 

[psalms109:31]

God

Why one rejects Him or one accepts is because of God. He draws the meek and humble that trust in the Lord and has hidden the truth from the wise and learned who think they know more than God. That his wisdom is greater than His. Who think God's way to salvation is foolishness.

 

[Luke2427]

He couldn't keep the law as a whole due to his nature...but he could keep each command at any given time. According to you, it would be an impossibility to do even that.


I can tell you why I did, and you can tell me why you did, but neither of us can crawl into the head of another. Now, from Scripture I can say John did not exchange the truth for a lie and Jack did. The reasons one did and one did not can only be gained from first hand knowledge of each. Now I know the common answers to this where TULIP will tell me why each believed what they did (even though it is impossible to know the mind of another), but it is purely based on faulty presuppositions.

But Webdog, the Bible does not teach that man can keep the law of God ever. His carnal mind is at enmity with God and CANNOT be subject unto the law of God according to Romans eight.

Why did John not exchange the truth for a lie and why did Jack do so?

Is John wiser or less depraved?

If so, why is John wiser?

How did John get wiser?

If it is his circumstances, his opportunities, then why did John have those opportunities and Jack not?

If it is not the opportunities then what is it?

 

[Luke2427]

Why one rejects Him or one accepts is because of God.

YES! A THOUSAND TIMES YES! This is exactly why some are saved and others are not. It is not of him that willeth or of him that runneth but of God that showeth mercy!

He draws the meek and humble that trust in the Lord and has hidden the truth from the wise and learned who think they know more than God. That his wisdom is greater than His. Who think God's way to salvation is foolishness.

Who are these humble, unregenerate people, Psalms?

Why are they humble and others proud?

Why do some people become humble and find salvation while others remain proud and go on to damnation?

Are the humble less depraved than the proud?

Are the humble wiser than the proud?

If so, how did they get that way?

Did God make some less depraved? Did God orchestrate certain circumstances so that some could become wise unto salvation while not so orchestrating the circumstances of the others so that they might become wise unto salvation?

Why are some humble and others proud?

 

[psalms109:31]

Learn

John 6:43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'[Or Spirit ] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

John 14:24
He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are life.

2 Corinthians 5:

16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

We are the minister of Spirit and life to the dead. No one is regenerated until they get the words of Jesus, because it is His word that is Spirit and life.

Please read these scripture, my job is not the reason why, but to spread.

Ezekiel 3:
18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [Or in ; also in verses 19 and 20
] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

James 5:
17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

I am using this scripture not against you, but to show you God does hold us accountible even in the new testiment

James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

 

[Luke2427]

John 6:43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.'[Or Spirit ] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

John 14:24
He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are life.

2 Corinthians 5:

16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

We are the minister of Spirit and life to the dead. No one is regenerated until they get the words of Jesus, because it is His word that is Spirit and life.

Please read these scripture, my job is not the reason why, but to spread.

Ezekiel 3:
18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [Or in ; also in verses 19 and 20
] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

James 5:
17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

I am using this scripture not against you, but to show you God does hold us accountible even in the new testiment

James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

These Scriptures do not prove what you are trying to purport, though.

I cannot see how they have anything to do with this idea that unregenerate man can be humble before God in his natural state from whence they CANNOT be subject unto the law of God.

You did not answer the questions. Will you?

 

[psalms109:31]

Teaching

These Scriptures do not prove what you are trying to purport, though.

I cannot see how they have anything to do with this idea that unregenerate man can be humble before God in his natural state from whence they CANNOT be subject unto the law of God.

You did not answer the questions. Will you?

Most people do not come because they are not being taught by the words of the Father which is the the words of Jesus, but by the words of men. The words of Jesus is Spirit and life, but the teaches that are being sent out have the key, but not handing them out. The main reason they themselves have not entered

Luke 11:52
"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering."

One day we will become one and there will be amout comming to Jesus like the sands of the seashore.

 

[psalms109:31]

Blame

In other words I blame man not God, because He wants them to come, but they are not willing not Him. Read those scriptures again.

Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

 

[percho]

175 Post on two threads.

To answer the OP. They don't go anywhere.

Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. (Laid who? Lazarus.) (He did not ask where is his body.) And he (Lazarus) that was dead came forth.

God formed man from the dust of the ground. Took the dust of the ground and made corruptible flesh of it. God breathed into the nose of what was made from the ground the breath of life (chay) and the two together became a living soul.
(chay nephesh) When the life from God is taken away you have a dead soul left.
That is what is resurrected. Given life again by God. That is what these verses say. He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

If this isn't what they say relative to everything else I wrote please tell me what they do say.