Where do you draw the line on booze?

[blackbird]

Dear Cynic,

I was thinking along the lines of pistols or rifles--at paper targets, of course!! But then after a big tall glass of your "joy juice"--you couldn't hit the side of a mountain at ten paces away!!

I'll sleep on the challenge--but who will be the judge--I know, in all fairness--we'll send them both to a repreable Southern Baptist preacher of my choice and of your choice!

 

[C.S. Murphy]

GIG excellent post I agree totaly, concerning the grey areas of the Bible I don't think there are any. Most originate in the grey matter between some peoples ears. Paul said all Scripture is profitable that means no grey areas simply black and white and Red all over.
Murph

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by blackbird:

I'll sleep on the challenge--

Interesting comment. Abuse of sleep is also a sin in scripture, but sleep itself is not. Maybe you better not go to sleep, appearance of evil and all that.

And I daresay that different amounts of sleep could also affect shooting abilities.

 

[Alex]

Although I didn't read all the pages, I have a general idea of the line of thoughts. First, the Bible does refer to ahcohol, maybe not the strength as opposed to today, BUT it mentions DRUNKEN orgies. So by this you could get DRUNK, even in the OT where this is mentioned. I'm sure in the NT they were advanced enough to make a pretty strong wine.

To me, as a Baptist, to have a few(one or two) drinks OCCASIONALLY is not a sin. It is OVER INDULGENCE that makes it wrong BUT that can be done with food, or most anything else and would become harmful to your body, even exercise.

However, to drink any at all can LEAD to more and more and before you know it, you are drunk OR a drunkard. As someone has already pointed out, that to drive after drinking is wrong but when drunk or high, your brain doesn't tell you this. My Baptist church opposes any drinking OR letting anyone sell alcoholic drinks with X distance from the church. Actually this is a town ordinance and can only be oked only by the church thus affected.

As for work, we all have to be associated with the secular world and to think you can hide from alcohol is somewhat foolish. Your boss may be an alcoholic....do you quit a good job because of this?

The bottom line is, first it is not a sin as Jesus drank wine but He didn't get drunk and didn't He make wine for the wedding party?

So, do what you feel is right, for you and your family. I would say personally to just stay away from drinking. If that hinders your social status, find another group! I also think, that if you have a few daily, that you do not let your children know this as this is probabily where the most damage will be done. If Pop/Mom drink, then it is ok for me! Another reason to be totally discrete with it is that you can be a stumbling stone for others. Hey....doesn't the POPE drink?

God Bless............Alex

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Cynic are you seriously recommending a glass of wine to help in sermon preperation, and if so do you base that on scripture?
Alex do I detect a chink in your fundamental armor with your tolerance toward social drinking or have I misunderstood.
Murph

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Cynic are you seriously recommending a glass of wine to help in sermon preperation, and if so do you base that on scripture?
Alex do I detect a chink in your fundamental armor with your tolerance toward social drinking or have I misunderstood.
Murph

Well, Murph, I guess that may be the case as I cannot find scripturally where it is a sin. Also, I might add, that I didn't mean to go to social drink places OR if you do, do not drink there. If you HAVE to have an occasional drink, I guess the best place would to be deep in the woods!

I do not drink but did some 2o years back and my prior drinking became a disaster! I was only referring to the question: Is it a sin to drink SMALL amounts and only occasionally? I think the sin issue comes into place based on how much and often do you drink and where. This is kinda like the abortion issue as there seems to be no direct scripture forbidding this, UNLESS I overlooked them and if so, will change my thoughts in a hurry.

God Bless..........Alex

 

[ChristianCynic]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Cynic are you seriously recommending a glass of wine to help in sermon preperation, and if so do you base that on scripture?

I am not recommending any such thing. I was responding to the challenge presented by "Blackbird" that he could do "anything a hundred times better" if I sipped any wine doing it and he did not.

 

[blackbird]

Dear Cynic,

I'm not gonna take you up on the challenge. Its not because I know I can beat you "hands down"--I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I could--in fact, I know I'd win the challenge--even if you and I were face to face and the only beverages we had before us was Folgers Coffee and Nehi Grape sodas!! Thats how confident I am in the gift of preaching that Almighty God gave me!

But to challenge you to a "Sermon Duel" with you holding onto your liquor as some sort of leverage in helping you to "top" ole Blackbird--(1) would be showing my lack of dignity and respect for the gift that God gave me (2) would be like Matt Dillon challenging Festus to a pistol "Draw" out on Main Street. Especially when Festus has just walked out of Miss Kitty's saloon tanked up! I can't imagine any of the above mentioned happening while I'm living!

The best to you and yours!
Blackbird

 

[Ransom]

In all the emotional rhetoric about the devastating effects alcohol abuse can have on the individual and society, it has been all but overlooked that there are at least five uses of wine that the Scriptures commend. Anyone care to comment on these?

</font>

• Ceremonial</font>
• Celebration</font>
• Medicinal</font>
• Thirst</font>
• Aesthetic Appreciation
  </font>

 

[Glory Bound]

BrianT,

You like to say that "abuse" is the problem with alcohol. What is your definition of "abuse"? Beginning with the very first sip, the body is affected. With each additional sip more alcohol enters the blood stream. When does the blood alcohol level become "abusive"?

There's no need to point to the guys who can't stand up because he's drunk - that's an extreme. Where is the line that we're to stop drinking?

Most of the other things you mention that can be abused have a clear line between proper usage and abuse. Where is the limit for alcohol, and how do you know?

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Glory Bound:
Where is the limit for alcohol, and how do you know?

This is a very difficult question to answer for several reasons: it depends on the person's spiritual convictions, the person's size and weight, what other things the person has eaten or drank recently or will in the near future, how tired the person is, the person's intention and/or reason for partaking of the drink, and even external things like who else is with the person, what the person will be doing next, what the laws are in that area, etc.

 

[Glory Bound]

Originally posted by BrianT:
This is a very difficult question to answer for several reasons: it depends on the person's spiritual convictions, the person's size and weight, what other things the person has eaten or drank recently or will in the near future, how tired the person is, the person's intention and/or reason for partaking of the drink, and even external things like who else is with the person, what the person will be doing next, what the laws are in that area, etc.

Is there no wonder then at the number of people who fail to stop drinking before they cross the line into "abuse"?

[ August 27, 2002, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Glory Bound ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Glory Bound:
Is there no wonder then at the number of people who fail to stop drinking before they cross the line into "abuse"?

I don't understand the point of your question. Yes, lots of people abuse alcohol.

 

[Glory Bound]

Originally posted by BrianT:
I don't understand the point of your question. Yes, lots of people abuse alcohol.

My point is that with the line between casual drinking and abuse so hard to determine, it's no wonder that many cross that line without recognizing it.

That's what makes alcohol so dangerous, in my opinion. It's one thing to say "use it, but don't abuse it", and another to determine when "use" becomes "abuse".

[ August 27, 2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Glory Bound ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by Glory Bound:
My point is that with the line between casual drinking and abuse so hard to determine, it's no wonder that many cross that line without recognizing it.

It's not really hard to determine, it's just different depending on circumstances. How do you know when you're abusing money? Or food?

It's one thing to say "use it, but don't abuse it", and another to determine when "use" becomes "abuse".

I agree. But just because it's not always easy to determine where the line is does not mean we should run away in fear, as some on this thread imply.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by GIG:
Lets see " I know i've had too many beers when I tell a story to the Chick sitting next to me " I don't suppose that chick was sitting next to you in lets say the 5 th pew from the right??? The bible says to come out and be separate from among them and for us to be holy and to abstain from the appearance of evil.

No, I tend not to drink beer in church.

Look, that was a joke and the I think the person who asked the question knew I was joking.

In all fairness, I hope you read the post before that one in which I said that I had decided to stop drinking altogether.

Like I said, I don't have a conviction against it and I won't look down on anyone who does decide to have one or two here or there, but I've decided that for myself, it's just better to be safe than sorry.

Mike

 

[blackbird]

So---ole BrianT had this abuse thing all figured out!! And funny how he always wants to tie in abuse of alcohol with abuse of food and money!! Buddy, I can "pig out" over at Shoney's buffet and never have to worry about what car I'm gonna smash into headon--kill somebody--and then cry like a little baby in front of a judge when he finds me guilty of vehicle homicide! I can "pig out" at the buffet bar--and the next day--go to the weight room, jog, or swim the calories off.

You guys think its so cool. Even cool enough to challenge Blackbird to a sermon duel--me being a Tee-tote-ler and the other with a frazzlin' wine bottle and glass on the study desk!!

 

[A.J.Armitage]

Originally posted by Justified:
The lie of social drinking can be controled is a direct contradiction to God's Word.

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by blackbird:
So---ole BrianT had this abuse thing all figured out!! And funny how he always wants to tie in abuse of alcohol with abuse of food and money!! Buddy, I can "pig out" over at Shoney's buffet and never have to worry about what car I'm gonna smash into headon--kill somebody--and then cry like a little baby in front of a judge when he finds me guilty of vehicle homicide! I can "pig out" at the buffet bar--and the next day--go to the weight room, jog, or swim the calories off.

Blackbird, relax a little bit.

The potential to kill someone with your car is not the deciding factor as to whether something is a sin or not. Just because two abuses can have different consequences does not mean one is a lesser or greater sin.

You guys think its so cool.

I think Jesus is cool. And I think it's cool how he stood up to the Pharisees when they called him a winebibber. And I think it's cool how all it takes is 10 minutes of research to get a better understanding of what scripture says about wine. And I think it's uncool how you keep avoiding that fact, instead relying on emotional sensationalism and rehashing the same old stuff that's already been addressed.

 

[A.J.Armitage]

Originally posted by blackbird:
You guys think its so cool. Even cool enough to challenge Blackbird to a sermon duel--me being a Tee-tote-ler and the other with a frazzlin' wine bottle and glass on the study desk!!

No, you issued the challenge when you said you could do anything 100 times better than anyone sipping wine. But apparently you think you can write a sermon 100 times, or even significantly, better than anyone else, sipping wine or otherwise, which sounds more like pride than anything else.