Where Does Faith Come From II

[agedman]

Do you want to try rewording this in a more coherent way?

Are you not the basing human ability upon corruption, for you admitted there is no ability that escaped the corruption of sin?

Does human faith generate from the sin filled will?

If it is not the sin filled will, or sin filled strength, or sin filled station (status), then describe from what and in what manner is the corrupt derived that it may acquire incorruptibility.

 

[Yeshua1]

Iconclast said:



Actually I would appreciate it if you would not do that very thing.




Again twisting my words. I never argued that. I expect you to go back and actually read my words and represent them correctly.



You are conflating believe and regeneration. I do not.



I did make it clear from the start. God must pursue us. (I John 4:19) We see an example of that with Adam and Eve in the garden after they fell. Today we are pursued with the gospel. Where does faith come from? Scripture is clear in Romans 10:17, Romans 1:16, and James 1:18) If He did not pursue us we would not come to Him but the gospel is both the method of pursual and the obtaining faith. I did not say it God di via Paul in His book to the church in Rome. You may disagree with that but your issue is not with me it is with those passages.

What it does not need is an extra measure of supernatural grace to first regenerate us so we can believe. And contrary to your view that, my friend, is the crux of the matter in our disagreement.

Gift from/of the Holy Spirit towards those who God intended to be saved by the Cross of Christ!

 

[Revmitchell]

Does human faith generate from the sin filled will?

Romans 10:17; Romans 1:16; James 1:18

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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[agedman]

Romans 10:17; Romans 1:16; James 1:18

You do know that every one of those verses stand against your thinking that human generated faith reaches out and takes the gift offered.

The verses describe how God brings faith, how His authority alone instigates and how He without any help from humankind does the work of salvation.

Yet, do you persist in clinging that human faith must first respond before salvation is granted?

Why not take from the Scriptures you offered and recognize it is God’s authority to, as John wrote, make certain ones He chooses the adopted children?

As I stated earlier, faith and salvation are inseparable. God grants the faith and with that faith is salvation.

I recall often hearing people say, “If I just had enough faith...”.

In what you presented in previous posts, that may well be the case. God would seemingly need to determine the quality and quantity in order to realize salvation was allowed to be granted. Thus the human earns salvation by the merits of their self generated volition.

This matter of both quantity and quality of faith is God’s business, to measure out to every believer.

The believer’s response is to “work out, exercise, build upon that faith (Peter, “add to your faith...”).

Our Lord said, “those that believe ... have eternal life...”. A done accomplished deal. “Have”.

Salvation is not gotten once someone generates enough faith to reach out and grasp it. It is already given as inseparable in faith God grants to those of His choosing.

 

[Revmitchell]

You do know that every one of those verses stand against your thinking that human generated faith reaches out and takes the gift offered.

I reject your characterization "human generated faith" sooooooo......you are just wrong.

The verses describe how God brings faith, how His authority alone instigates and how He without any help from humankind does the work of salvation.

You and I Have been though this. We disagree on what is legitimately called help from man. My responding to the gospel is not help. it is an absurd claim. No where is the receiving of a gift also considered part of the giving.

Yet, do you persist in clinging that human faith must first respond before salvation is granted?

No, I reject your characterization "human faith". However, man is enabled to respond due to the gospel that only comes from God.

Why not take from the Scriptures you offered and recognize it is God’s authority to, as John wrote, make certain ones He chooses the adopted children?

The verses I provide says no such thing. What they do say is that God sends the gospel to everyone and each and every person can respond to the enabling of God through the gospel.

As I stated earlier, faith and salvation are inseparable. God grants the faith and with that faith is salvation.

Faith (belief) is man's response to the gospel. Salvation is what God provides after man comes to Him. Salvation is the freeing of man from the penalty of sin. Those two are not the same.

I recall often hearing people say, “If I just had enough faith...”.

OK?

In what you presented in previous posts, that may well be the case. God would seemingly need to determine the quality and quantity in order to realize salvation was allowed to be granted. Thus the human earns salvation by the merits of their self generated volition.

Man cannot earn it as man cannot provide propitiation, cannot devise the plan, cannot meet the standard of holiness, cannot offer salvation to anyone including himself. Man's response to God's offer of salvation is not in fact meritorious.

Salvation is not gotten once someone generates enough faith to reach out and grasp it. It is already given as inseparable in faith God grants to those of His choosing.

So you claim without substantiation.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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