Where Does Faith Come From II

[agedman]

That is your presupposition. It interferes with your ability to see the plain reading of scripture.

Really,

I present a realistic presentation of the gift of life, and you present a picture of a neat little present given to one who already has life and you think that my presentation "is presupposition." That "It interferes with your ability to see the plain reading of scripture?"

How?

Does your gift present life?

Does not the Scripture state, "life is in the blood"?

Does you gift present an offering to one unresponsive and incapable of taking?

Does not the Scriptures state, "DEAD in trespasses and sin, BUT the gift of God is eternal life..."

Does you gift require one to actively participate?

Does not the Scriptures state,"NOT by the will of man."

So, perhaps you should turn your presupposition upon your own presentation of Scriptures.

For, it would seem "the plain reading of Scriptures" certainly does "interfere" with your presuppositions.

 

[agedman]

Are you conflating faith and salvation?

"Without faith it is impossible to please Him."

Are you posting that the heathen can please God?

Are you posting that faith and salvation are not bound together?

I realize they are two different Greek words, but "conflating" (combining) is not always a problem.

 

[agedman]

Dear Reader,

While it is true that the word "pistis" is used as "faith in some passages, what has been misrepresented above is the use of Pistis. As with many words both in English and in Greek, the same word and takes on different meanings depending on context. While Pistis is used to convey the conviction of truth in many passages, that is not the only way in which it is used. In fact it is used in other passages to convey fidelity, faithfulness or the character of one who can be relied on according to the Greek Lexicon. The author of the post above has unfortunately painted a picture that it has to be used the exact same way every time it is used. In Romans 10:17 Pistis is used to convey the idea of conviction of truth while in Galatians 5:22 it is used to convey the idea of fidelity or someone who can be relied on.

The person who believes in Romans 10:17 is not yet regenerated and therefore receives Pistis (belief) from the word of God. In Galatians 5:22 the person receiving the fruit of the Spirit is regenerated and is receiving Pistis (fidelity, faithfulness) from the Spirit because they are saved. We need to be careful with God's word.

The truth is that Romans 10:17 clearly states how faith comes. That is salvation comes. Regeneration cannot be separated from such faith. They are indivisible.

Certainly, one must be very careful in the use of God's word. Spread it indiscriminately!

Slather it indiscriminately throughout the field, across the road, the shallow and stony, The seed itself has life within, yet only the prepared soil (that good soil) results in harvest. The rest - not.

 

[Revmitchell]

Really,

I present a realistic presentation of the gift of life, and you present a picture of a neat little present given to one who already has life and you think that my presentation "is presupposition." That "It interferes with your ability to see the plain reading of scripture?"

How?

Because you assume somethings based on your errant doctrine. You said:

"Find an illustration of one that needs life,"

That is your boundary no scriptures. The new life is a gift not a comparison to a gift.

that has no self acquisition ability,

Again your boundary not scriptures. It is based on your errant doctrine that if man must respond by choosing then salvation is by His will. I reject that. God designed the plan, has the power and authority to deliver the promise, and is the only one who could stand in our stead to meet His Holy standard. God requiring man to respond by choosing is not the deciding factor. The decision has already been made. Without God man can choose God all he wants but salvation would never come. In the end man's necessary response to God by choosing is God's plan and design not man's.

and is given such a gift not based upon their status, breeding, will, and strength.

Again your boundary not God's. I have already cleared this up with the last potion of your quote.

Does your gift present life?

Does not the Scripture state, "life is in the blood"?

Does you gift present an offering to one unresponsive and incapable of taking?

Your boundary based on errant doctrine. I reject it.

Does not the Scriptures state, "DEAD in trespasses and sin, BUT the gift of God is eternal life..."

It does, your version of dead I reject. It does not mean total inability it means separated from God. It is not about ability it is about relationship. Your doctrine is errant.

Does you gift require one to actively participate?

As all gifts are received by our reaching out and taking possession of it. So is salvation. John 1:12 says when we believe we are given the power to become the sons of God.

Does not the Scriptures state,"NOT by the will of man."

So, perhaps you should turn your presupposition upon your own presentation of Scriptures.

I'm good.

 

[Revmitchell]

"Without faith it is impossible to please Him."

Are you posting that the heathen can please God?

Yes they can when they come to God in faith (believing) Him for their salvation

Are you posting that faith and salvation are not bound together?

I am not sure how you are binding them together but one must first believe (have faith) then as a result one is saved.

I realize they are two different Greek words, but "conflating" (combining) is not always a problem.

It is a problem with then are not the same thing.

 

[Revmitchell]

The truth is that Romans 10:17 clearly states how faith comes. That is salvation comes. Regeneration cannot be separated from such faith. They are indivisible.

I reject that. Salvation is a result of faith. John 1:12; 3:16; Romans 1:16; 10:17 By God's design

 

[agedman]

Yes they can when they come to God in faith (believing) Him for their salvation



I am not sure how you are binding them together but one must first believe (have faith) then as a result one is saved.



It is a problem with then are not the same thing.

I reject that. Salvation is a result of faith. John 1:12; 3:16; Romans 1:16; 10:17 By God's design

You disputed yourself?

 

[Revmitchell]

You disputed yourself?

What are you talking about

 

[agedman]

What are you talking about

Why would one such as you ever consider some corrupt human attribute can gain anything Godly?

Job as, “Can clean come from unclean?”

 

[Revmitchell]

Why would one such as you ever consider some corrupt human attribute can gain anything Godly?

Job as, “Can clean come from unclean?”

First I want to know how I disputed myself.

 

[agedman]

First I want to know how I disputed myself.

It was a question not a statement needing explained.

There are those who because human faith “accepts” salvation, then when human faith falters they automatically reject and salvation is withdrawn.

How then does what begins from human attribute not ultimately fail?

 

[Revmitchell]

It was a question not a statement needing explained.

There are those who because human faith “accepts” salvation, then when human faith falters they automatically reject and salvation is withdrawn.

How then does what begins from human attribute not ultimately fail?

Because then God regenerates us. We are then new creatures in Christ 2 Cor 5:17. We become one of the elect. We hear, we believe, then we are sealed. Ephesians 1:13

 

[Revmitchell]

Why would one such as you ever consider some corrupt human attribute can gain anything Godly?

Job as, “Can clean come from unclean?”

You divorce our attributes as if God has nothing to do with them. God gave us our attributes when He created us.

 

[agedman]

You divorce our attributes as if God has nothing to do with them. God gave us our attributes when He created us.

Certainly Adam and Eve were created with pure attributes, however what attribute remained incorrupt by sin in any human?

 

[Revmitchell]

Certainly Adam and Eve were created with pure attributes, however what attribute remained incorrupt by sin in any human?

None, but that does not mean total inability

 

[MB]

But, where do you go for that opinion...do you make a guess based on what seems right, or can you put your finger on something God, who is our only authority, ( and the only One we should be trusting, Proverbs 3:5-7 ) has to say on the subject?

Observation ! I have two eyes with which to see. Not to mention I was once lost and know how it was for me. Satan distracts and confuses.Of course you had no problems with Satan. Proverbs says absolutely nothing about Satan and his divices and methods of distraction. What Proverbs says is to trust in the Lord and I certainly do. I certainly do not trust in calvinism
MB

 

[MB]

No, that is not correct. The fool did not say that. In that passage the fool said "There is no God." The rest was not said by the fool.

Obviously the whole Psalm was said by the fool Again you reject the truth.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

Obviously the whole Psalm was said by the fool Again you reject the truth.
MB

You need to re-read the passage.

 

[agedman]

None, but that does not mean total inability

Are you not the placing ability upon corruption?

Is that not a foundation which rests upon the frail, faulty, sin filed, sand rather than the rock of which the church rests?

Because believers are a new creation, because all is new, then what corrupt ability is found In initiating salvation? If it is not the will, or strength, or station (status) describe to me from what is the corrupt derived that it may acquire.

 

[Revmitchell]

Are you not the placing ability upon corruption?

Is that not a foundation which rests upon the frail, faulty, sin filed, sand rather than the rock of which the church rests?

Because believers are a new creation, because all is new, then what corrupt ability is found In initiating salvation? If it is not the will, or strength, or station (status) describe to me from what is the corrupt derived that it may acquire.

Do you want to try rewording this in a more coherent way?