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Where Does Faith Come From II

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Revmitchell, Jul 2, 2019.

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  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Really,

    I present a realistic presentation of the gift of life, and you present a picture of a neat little present given to one who already has life and you think that my presentation "is presupposition." That "It interferes with your ability to see the plain reading of scripture?"

    How?

    Does your gift present life?

    Does not the Scripture state, "life is in the blood"?

    Does you gift present an offering to one unresponsive and incapable of taking?

    Does not the Scriptures state, "DEAD in trespasses and sin, BUT the gift of God is eternal life..."

    Does you gift require one to actively participate?

    Does not the Scriptures state,"NOT by the will of man."

    So, perhaps you should turn your presupposition upon your own presentation of Scriptures.

    For, it would seem "the plain reading of Scriptures" certainly does "interfere" with your presuppositions.
     
    #121 agedman, Jul 7, 2019
  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    "Without faith it is impossible to please Him."

    Are you posting that the heathen can please God?

    Are you posting that faith and salvation are not bound together?

    I realize they are two different Greek words, but "conflating" (combining) is not always a problem.
     
    #122 agedman, Jul 7, 2019
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  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    The truth is that Romans 10:17 clearly states how faith comes. That is salvation comes. Regeneration cannot be separated from such faith. They are indivisible.

    Certainly, one must be very careful in the use of God's word. Spread it indiscriminately!

    Slather it indiscriminately throughout the field, across the road, the shallow and stony, The seed itself has life within, yet only the prepared soil (that good soil) results in harvest. The rest - not.
     
    #123 agedman, Jul 8, 2019
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  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Because you assume somethings based on your errant doctrine. You said:

    That is your boundary no scriptures. The new life is a gift not a comparison to a gift.

    Again your boundary not scriptures. It is based on your errant doctrine that if man must respond by choosing then salvation is by His will. I reject that. God designed the plan, has the power and authority to deliver the promise, and is the only one who could stand in our stead to meet His Holy standard. God requiring man to respond by choosing is not the deciding factor. The decision has already been made. Without God man can choose God all he wants but salvation would never come. In the end man's necessary response to God by choosing is God's plan and design not man's.

    Again your boundary not God's. I have already cleared this up with the last potion of your quote.

    Your boundary based on errant doctrine. I reject it.

    It does, your version of dead I reject. It does not mean total inability it means separated from God. It is not about ability it is about relationship. Your doctrine is errant.

    As all gifts are received by our reaching out and taking possession of it. So is salvation. John 1:12 says when we believe we are given the power to become the sons of God.

    Does not the Scriptures state,"NOT by the will of man."

    I'm good.
     
    #124 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Yes they can when they come to God in faith (believing) Him for their salvation

    I am not sure how you are binding them together but one must first believe (have faith) then as a result one is saved.

    It is a problem with then are not the same thing.
     
    #125 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I reject that. Salvation is a result of faith. John 1:12; 3:16; Romans 1:16; 10:17 By God's design
     
    #126 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
  7. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    You disputed yourself?
     
    #127 agedman, Jul 8, 2019
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    What are you talking about
     
    #128 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Why would one such as you ever consider some corrupt human attribute can gain anything Godly?

    Job as, “Can clean come from unclean?”
     
    #129 agedman, Jul 8, 2019
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  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    First I want to know how I disputed myself.
     
    #130 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    It was a question not a statement needing explained.

    There are those who because human faith “accepts” salvation, then when human faith falters they automatically reject and salvation is withdrawn.

    How then does what begins from human attribute not ultimately fail?
     
    #131 agedman, Jul 8, 2019
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  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Because then God regenerates us. We are then new creatures in Christ 2 Cor 5:17. We become one of the elect. We hear, we believe, then we are sealed. Ephesians 1:13
     
    #132 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You divorce our attributes as if God has nothing to do with them. God gave us our attributes when He created us.
     
    #133 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Certainly Adam and Eve were created with pure attributes, however what attribute remained incorrupt by sin in any human?
     
    #134 agedman, Jul 8, 2019
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  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    None, but that does not mean total inability
     
    #135 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Observation ! I have two eyes with which to see. Not to mention I was once lost and know how it was for me. Satan distracts and confuses.Of course you had no problems with Satan. Proverbs says absolutely nothing about Satan and his divices and methods of distraction. What Proverbs says is to trust in the Lord and I certainly do. I certainly do not trust in calvinism
    MB
     
    #136 MB, Jul 8, 2019
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the whole Psalm was said by the fool Again you reject the truth.
    MB
     
    #137 MB, Jul 8, 2019
  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You need to re-read the passage.
     
    #138 Reformed1689, Jul 8, 2019
  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Are you not the placing ability upon corruption?

    Is that not a foundation which rests upon the frail, faulty, sin filed, sand rather than the rock of which the church rests?

    Because believers are a new creation, because all is new, then what corrupt ability is found In initiating salvation? If it is not the will, or strength, or station (status) describe to me from what is the corrupt derived that it may acquire.
     
    #139 agedman, Jul 8, 2019
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  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Do you want to try rewording this in a more coherent way?
     
    #140 Revmitchell, Jul 8, 2019
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