Where Does the Bible Say that the Church Will be Removed From Tribulation?

[taisto]

="Van, post: 2861471, member: 10696"
Is the "rapture" literally there (in Matthew 22:37) or not. Not
If you say you cannot see how, there is nothing I can say. Personal incredulity is fallacious argumentation.
One would only need to believe in the Pre-Wrath rapture.
If one's eyes are wide shut, they will not "see" the rapture.
Yes, one can hold the view that only the tribulation is being cut short, as I said.

Would an unchurched 5th grader see rapture in Matthew 22:37? If you had an entire assembly of unchurched 5th graders reading Matthew 22:37, would they see a rapture of the church in that verse?

 

[Van]

Is the "rapture" literally there (in Matthew 22:37) or not. Not
If you say you cannot see how, there is nothing I can say. Personal incredulity is fallacious argumentation.
One would only need to believe in the Pre-Wrath rapture.
If one's eyes are wide shut, they will not "see" the rapture.
Yes, one can hold the view that only the tribulation is being cut short, as I said.
Would an unchurched 5th grader see rapture in Matthew 22:37? If you had an entire assembly of unchurched 5th graders reading Matthew 22:37, would they see a rapture of the church in that verse?

Answering a question with a question is disingenuous deflection.

Matthew 24:22
“And if those days had not been cut short, no flesh would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect (chosen ones) those days will be cut short.

This verse may be interpreted as saying the days of suffering will be cut short because the church will be raptured, but it can also be used as the basis for believing the tribulation will be cut short for the benefit of those living at that time.

Any fifth grader could understand this post.

 

[MB]

It doesn't.
There will be members of God's elect alive during the time of Jacob's trouble ( 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 ).


Also, the wrath spoken of in 1 Thessalonians, for example, is His coming wrath at the Judgement.
Those who have believed on the Lord, from the heart, have been appointed to obtain salvation... not to obtain the wrath of God ( 1 Thessalonians 5:9 ).

Of course there will be a 144000 here to witness to the lost. Revelations says so
.MB

 

[taisto]

Answering a question with a question is disingenuous deflection.

Matthew 24:22
“And if those days had not been cut short, no flesh would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect (chosen ones) those days will be cut short.

This verse may be interpreted as saying the days of suffering will be cut short because the church will be raptured, but it can also be used as the basis for believing the tribulation will be cut short for the benefit of those living at that time.

Any fifth grader could understand this post.

You are making an assertion based upon something you have heard others say to you, not based on the text itself. I have asked if unchurched 5th graders would see a rapture in Matthew 24:22. You have not answered me on that question.

I have read the verse. Nowhere in the verse is there any implication that a rapture has taken place. I can read the verse a million times and it still will not be there. This is empirical fact, despite your claims.
Just because you hear someone teach something about a verse, it does not make their teaching true.
Can you actually address the verse and what it says? I quoted the entire passage, earlier, so you could address what Jesus is saying, but here's the lone verse. Teach us the rapture from this verse.

And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
(Matthew 24:22)

 

[kyredneck]

Do you take every statement in Revelation and in the Bible literally?

He takes NONE of these literally (but probably neither do you):

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1
11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3
7 And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.
12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.
20 He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22

 

[Van]

You are making an assertion based upon something you have heard others say to you, not based on the text itself. I have asked if unchurched 5th graders would see a rapture in Matthew 24:22. You have not answered me on that question.

I have read the verse. Nowhere in the verse is there any implication that a rapture has taken place. I can read the verse a million times and it still will not be there. This is empirical fact, despite your claims.
Just because you hear someone teach something about a verse, it does not make their teaching true.
Can you actually address the verse and what it says? I quoted the entire passage, earlier, so you could address what Jesus is saying, but here's the lone verse. Teach us the rapture from this verse.

And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
(Matthew 24:22)

1) Do false teachers ever tire of claiming to be mind readers?
2) Did I say 5th graders would see the rapture in Matthew 22:37? Nope
3) Did I say my view came from blind acceptance of Reformed doctrine? Nope
4) Did Post 10 address the content of Matthew 22:37? You bet
5) Did Post 10 address the content of Matthew 24:22? Nope

Is the "rapture" literally there (in Matthew 22:37) or not. Not
If you say you cannot see how, there is nothing I can say. Personal incredulity is fallacious argumentation.
One would only need to believe in the Pre-Wrath rapture.
If one's eyes are wide shut, they will not "see" the rapture.
Yes, one can hold the view that only the tribulation is being cut short, as I said.

 

[Piper]

The only verse is Revelation 3:10

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

"The Hour of trial" is interpreted as a well known time of trial or tribulation, or the Dispensation called the Great Tribulation.

Not that I believe that, but that is the only verse that specifically says it.

 

[taisto]

He takes NONE of these literally (but probably neither do you):

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1
11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3
7 And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.
12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.
20 He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22

I think you and I are similar in how we read Revelation, though I am sure we would have some bits to pick at various points.

 

[taisto]

1) Do false teachers ever tire of claiming to be mind readers?
2) Did I say 5th graders would see the rapture in Matthew 22:37? Nope
3) Did I say my view came from blind acceptance of Reformed doctrine? Nope
4) Did Post 10 address the content of Matthew 22:37? You bet
5) Did Post 10 address the content of Matthew 24:22? Nope

Is the "rapture" literally there (in Matthew 22:37) or not. Not
If you say you cannot see how, there is nothing I can say. Personal incredulity is fallacious argumentation.
One would only need to believe in the Pre-Wrath rapture.
If one's eyes are wide shut, they will not "see" the rapture.
Yes, one can hold the view that only the tribulation is being cut short, as I said.

Post 10 did not address the content of Matthew 24:22.
It addresses different interpretations of Matthew 24:22.
My point is that no one, reading only that verse, can come up with a rapture of the church. It just cannot be done.

 

[taisto]

The only verse is Revelation 3:10

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

"The Hour of trial" is interpreted as a well known time of trial or tribulation, or the Dispensation called the Great Tribulation.

Not that I believe that, but that is the only verse that specifically says it.

That verse is addressed to the church at Philadelphia. How does it apply to that church?

 

[Revmitchell]

Rev, I know what literal interpretation is. I suggest that my post actually showed a more literal interpretation of the passages than yours did.

first, you do not know what it is else you would not say what you post. I suggest you get some training and discipleship on these issues before you speak to them.

Second pointing out that you do not know what it means is not attacking you. If you feel I am attacking you personally then you should report my post. I am glad to stand behind my posts.

 

[Van]

Post 10 did not address the content of Matthew 24:22.
It addresses different interpretations of Matthew 24:22.
My point is that no one, reading only that verse, can come up with a rapture of the church. It just cannot be done.

We do agree, post 10 does not address Matthew 24:22.
I think "it addresses different interpretations of "Matthew 24:22" is a typo, should read Matthew 22:37.
Did I say a belief in the Pre-Wrath rapture of the church can come from just one verse? Nope

 

[timtofly]

@Revmitchell wrote a rebuttal in the Revelation 12 thread.


I asked Revmitchell where the Bible tells us that the Church will not be here on earth during Tribulation.

So, where does the Bible teach the removal of the Church from Tribulation?

I don't see it in Revelation, so where is it taught?

Where is it taught that all humans must die? That is your verse. Every time a person physically dies, they skip out of tribulation.

We should really protest that the church leaves, period. All should keep suffering tribulation until the Second Coming, no?

And those martyred, should spring back to life, because God forbid the church should have any way out of tribulation.

Until you can define this alleged tribulation the church should not be a part of, why argue if they leave before it happens?

 

[Van]

Mark 13:32
32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Revelation 3:10
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

Matthew 24:30-31
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Philippians 3:20-21
20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[Van]

I think the rapture of the church occurs when Christ comes in the clouds, and those dead in Christ, and those still living but changed in the twinkling of an eye meet Christ in the air. How would this event be explained, if not the rapture?

 

[taisto]

I think the rapture of the church occurs when Christ comes in the clouds, and those dead in Christ, and those still living but changed in the twinkling of an eye meet Christ in the air. How would this event be explained, if not the rapture?

The topic of this thread, however, is:
"Where Does the Bible Say that the Church Will be Removed From Tribulation?"

The Bible is very clear that those who are alive on the earth will be brought up to meet the King upon His triumphal arrival to destroy Babylon, the beast and its prophet, and the dragon. The text in scripture is clear on this.

What I do not read in scripture is that the church will be removed from tribulation. That is the topic of this thread so please try not to stray from the topic.

 

[timtofly]

What I do not read in scripture is that the church will be removed from tribulation. That is the topic of this thread so please try not to stray from the topic.

This has been an ongoing phenomenon since Stephen was stoned and welcomed into Paradise by Jesus.

 

[taisto]

This has been an ongoing phenomenon since Stephen was stoned and welcomed into Paradise by Jesus.

What do you mean here?
Tribulation is an ongoing phenomenon, or something else? I am not sure what you are pointing at.

 

[David Kent]

Of course there will be a 144000 here to witness to the lost. Revelations says so
.MB

Reference?

 

[David Kent]

Until you go and study the literal interpretation you and I cannt converse about theses issues. You shiw everytime you font know what it means

Literal isn't an interpretation.

The Sovereign Grace Advent Testimony say prophecy should be read as it Is and not interpreted. Do you agree with that?