Where is the Bible?

[Harold Garvey]

...... the same arguments have been expressed by both sides for the umpteenth time.

A moderator's comment.

If we do not have the inspired word of God due to all we have is nothing more than a translation, but then we have the same ones claiming translations are the word of God, but not inspired, yet we have over 5000 MSS available, also only the original autographs are inspired, yet we see translation even in many of them within themsleves, where is the Bible and what happened to it that we have no inspired word of God, which is the Bible and therefore we don't even have a Bible anymore?

We know that God moves/inspires, yet we have "scholars" who say we don't have an inspired Bible anymore. How is it they think they have stopped God from moving/ inspiring?

Today's culture is adversely affected by "pop culture" to the point of total immorality. Too many are irrational when it comes to morality and the desparate need fo it in the day we live.

In the field of relevence about Bible versions we now have a "pop" culture who are trying to say we no longer have the inspired word of God. This is the result of irrationaliztions about translations. However, not but a few make the connection and see that both irrational behaviors affect what is otherwise a conservative stand and speak all sorts of things as if their reasoning is above all others.

Where is the Bible if we no longer have the inspired word of God?

Don't carry on the same old dribble discussed for "umpteenth time", tell me just where is the Bible!

 

[Johnv]

The question relating to the OP is: Did God promise to inspire a specific script document? If so, where is this promise found?

 

[annsni]

The only right Bible is sitting in my living room right now. No other book is the Word of God - just that particular book. Yours can be fully identical to mine but only mine is the Word of God because we know we can't have more than one.

:thumbs:

 

[Harold Garvey]

The question relating to the OP is: Did God promise to inspire a specific script document? If so, where is this promise found?

No, I asked where is the Bible?

Yall say no version is inspired, if not then when did God fail to inspire anything?

 

[DHK]

No, I asked where is the Bible?

Yall say no version is inspired, if not then when did God fail to inspire anything?

Inspiration literally means "God-breathed." Think about it. Is it necessary to have the very breath of God in that book sitting on your table? God promised to preserve His Word. Is that not a sufficient enough promise for your faith to stand upon? Why is it necessary to go beyond that which is written? The Bible is not a book to be idolized.

 

[tinytim]

Well, I have many Bibles... One is here beside my computer.. plus many on my computer...

but the place where I like it the most:

My Heart! I have hidden God's word in my heart.. and it will never be taken away.

 

[R. Lawson]

The OP makes a good point. Our translations are not inspired/God-breathed. However, the translations contain the message (not the paraphrase ) God wanted us to have, namely the Gospel.

I've been told we have thousands of fragments, not MSS.

In Christ,
Robb

 

[Thermodynamics]

Where is the Bible if we no longer have the inspired word of God?

Hi there Harold, I hope I can add something new to this conversation, but I rather doubt it.

I believe that the original autographs were the inspired, God-breathed, perfect Word of God. At this time in history we do not know where those original autographs are or if they have survived. They may be out there somewhere waiting to be discovered, or they may have been forever lost.

The history buff in me would love to see some or all of the original autographs discovered, that would be one of the greatest finds of all time and would be very exciting. However, my pragmatic side knows that it doesn't really matter because of the remarkable number of Greek manuscripts that we have along with a huge number of manuscript fragments and quotes from the early Church Fathers. We can use those to know, with a very high degree of accuracy, just what the originals said.

To answer your question directly, it is in those manuscripts, fragments and quotes that we have the perfect Word of God. There may be debate about which family of manuscripts better represents the originals ( I believe it is the Majority Text that was used by the entire Church for the first 1900 years of it's history and others here believe it is the Minority Text that is found in the oldest complete manuscripts), but every word that God inspired IS preserved in those manuscripts.

I have a preference for the Authorized Version (King James Version) because I believe it is the best translation of the manuscripts that I believe are accurate copies of the originals. However, I am under no illusion that the AV is perfect, inspired or anything of the sort. The AV does contain errors in translation (as does any translation). Those errors don't impact doctrine, but they are still errors.

If you have an AV sitting in front of you and you are thinking that it is without any error whatsoever, you are simply wrong. A translation, any translation can't be the "preserved Word of God" by it's very nature. A translation is a new thing, 17th Century English didn't exist in the First Century, so anything written in 17th Century English can't preserve something written in First Century Greek. This is a logic issue, not a theology issue.

 

[Jim1999]

Thermodynamics, I think you are bang on, mate. Imagine how many would worship the original manuscripts if they were found. We do have sufficient information scrutinized and passed on through time to rest assured that we have the word of God before us in the various translations.

I too accept the KJV as the best copy in the English language and continue to use my 1945 copy of the Cambridge version. A lot of corrections and updates mind you, but it is my study Bible and preaching Bible.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Even if we did have the original manuscripts there is no such thing as a word for word translation from one language to another.

 

[Thermodynamics]

Thermodynamics, I think you are bang on, mate. Imagine how many would worship the original manuscripts if they were found. We do have sufficient information scrutinized and passed on through time to rest assured that we have the word of God before us in the various translations.

I too accept the KJV as the best copy in the English language and continue to use my 1945 copy of the Cambridge version. A lot of corrections and updates mind you, but it is my study Bible and preaching Bible.

Cheers,

Jim

It is nice to have someone on here agree with me for once, I am used to getting pounced on by both sides for everything I say. Thank you Jim.

By the way, have you ever posted pictures of your 1945 Cambridge? I'd love to see how one of the old (should I say classic) well made Cambridge Bibles has held up after 64 years of use.

 

[franklinmonroe]

... Where is the Bible if we no longer have the inspired word of God? ...

Hi Harold. I understand your question and sympathize with you. I would like suggest to you that part of the answer is to begin thinking of the 'Bible' in a different way than you have become accustom to thinking of it. It seems that your 'Bible' is an ideal you have in your mind. You ask: "... If we no longer have the inspired word of God?" I ask: When did "we" get an inspired Bible? In the 2nd century? Maybe the 7th? By the 11th? 18th?

First, you should remember that the 'Bible' (66 books, as we know it) could not exist until possibly the late 3rd century. That means that Enoch did not have the 'Bible'; Job did not have a 'Bible'; Abraham did not have the 'Bible'; etc. In fact, Timothy did not have the entire 'Bible' that we have. Sure, the Hebrew canon was complete about the time of Christ but even most Jews (especially women) did not have access to ALL of it. The apostolic Greek writings were finished by the end of the 1st century but were geographically scattered; so, incomplete collections of Christian writings eventually began circulating. Then the NT canon becomes recognized by believers. Complete 'Bibles' were rare and not commonly produced (for practical reasons) until into the 12/13th century (even then, usually in several volumes). Those 'Bibles' had been written in Latin and common folks could NOT read it even if they saw one; AND those 'Bibles' would have had the unacceptable apocryphal verses included. Large manuscripts (even 'Bible' ones) always contained transcription errors. It was only after the advances of Gutenburg that 'Bibles' really became available for the first time. What all this means is that: Many millions of believers never even had a chance to read the so-called 'Bible'.

The form of the 'Bible' you speak of is less than 500 years young. I think a viable theory would need consistant answers to these questions: Did God deprive those ancient believers of something vital? Did God inspire all those incomplete copies? Did God also inspire those with errors? Did God inspire those with apocryphal material mixed in? Since there are no Scriptures to identify a particular inspired translation, how could a perfect 'Bible' be recognized at any particular point in time but never before (or again since), and at any particular place but not anywhere else?

Second, Thermodynamics explanation of the manuscripts evidence is quite adequate. I think we find that the recorded words of God, like God's physical creation (our Universe), were originally given in a perfect form but sin has had adverse affects upon them. Only by God's sustaining power could the written texts still be so remarkably preserved.

Facts are stubborn things. Thinking that something is perfect (or inspired) will not make it so.

 

[Trotter]

To answer your question directly, it is in those manuscripts, fragments and quotes that we have the perfect Word of God. There may be debate about which family of manuscripts better represents the originals ( I believe it is the Majority Text that was used by the entire Church for the first 1900 years of it's history and others here believe it is the Minority Text that is found in the oldest complete manuscripts), but every word that God inspired IS preserved in those manuscripts. . . .

If you have an AV sitting in front of you and you are thinking that it is without any error whatsoever, you are simply wrong. A translation, any translation can't be the "preserved Word of God" by it's very nature. A translation is a new thing, 17th Century English didn't exist in the First Century, so anything written in 17th Century English can't preserve something written in First Century Greek. This is a logic issue, not a theology issue.

Great post, Thermo. Well written and to the point. I also agree with your statements.

I have the bible... several copies of different translations. My wife owns a few, as well. Each and every one of them is inspired in that the original was inspired, but none of them (nor any other translation in existence) is inspired in and of itself. God inspired the original authors, not the scribes who copied or the translators who translated the writings into other languages.

After all, why should He have to redo what He has already done? Was not His original inspiration enough? Must have to re-breathe His word each time someone pens a translation? Or did He just do it in 1611? NO, God did His inspiring at the source, and that inspiration continues to live on in His words... no matter what language or translation it is in.

 

[Johnv]

No, I asked where is the Bible?

We all know it's a rhetorical question, because you believe that only one translations qualifies as a valid bible.

Yall say no version is inspired, if not then when did God fail to inspire anything?

In none of the threads in which you have posted has anyone said no version is inspired. Actually, it's you who claim that no version, save one, is inspired.

 

[Jim1999]

Thermodynamic...Here is a photo of the last page of 1945 Cambridge KJV. Yes, it is coming apart in sections, but still readable. This photo was taken because we were discussing notes made in Bibles.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Rippon]

Jim, why don't you get it professionally rebound?

 

[Jim1999]

Rippon, It still works for me, I do have Bibles in better condition, but guess I cherish this old book too much to have it away.

This was a gift to me by the PB Gospel Hall I attended in London when I was off to Bible College.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[R. Lawson]

Rippon, It still works for me, I do have Bibles in better condition, but guess I cherish this old book too much to have it away.

This was a gift to me by the PB Gospel Hall I attended in London when I was off to Bible College.

Cheers,

Jim

Pastor Jim,

Have you been using it since 1945 or was 1945 the year of its release?

In Christ,
Robb

 

[Jim1999]

Robb, This has been my Bible in pulpit, study and steady use since 1945. The only time I didn't carry it was the three years I was in Korea. I had a smaller Bible then that was easier to carry in my pocket. I'll try to copy a few more views of it on my printer.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Harold Garvey]

Inspiration literally means "God-breathed." Think about it. Is it necessary to have the very breath of God in that book sitting on your table? God promised to preserve His Word. Is that not a sufficient enough promise for your faith to stand upon? Why is it necessary to go beyond that which is written? The Bible is not a book to be idolized.

As far as i know, no one is idolizing any book.

Your words deserve the analytical conclusion to be that God only breathed during the time of the past and hasn't continued breathing or even breathed in 2000 + years.

Where is this ever elusive "Bible" no one has which is the only inspired word of God?