Where is the Bible?

[Harold Garvey]

If inspiration took place only once, when and where did translations either kill the inspiration, or when and where did God lose the capability to maintian that inspiration?

I contend the Bible is inspired. It is a translation stemming from the previous inspired translating of men as they had God move upon their hearts. This moving of God also inspired men to begin to pen those inspirations onto materials for future reference.

Since translations are in man's words, and God spoke to man's hearts, which were penned down into man's words, then the conclusion would be there never was any inspired Bible in fragment or beginning because as soo n as man began to pen that inspiration it died within the writing of it.

I don't believe this at all. I am just exposing the error of the rationale found within the idyllic, secular and humanistic logics.

God's word cannot ever lose inspiration, it still carries the same life-giving breath or we are all doomed, damned and heading to a devil's hell.:BangHead:

 

[tinytim]

Are those "bibles" inspired? According to some, if they are a translation they have lost inspiration.

I believe you understood my question, it's just you are dodging it.

You have apparently misunderstood the meaning of "inspiration"...

Inspiration is "God Breathed"...
God only did this with the originals...

God did not breathe the Bible I bought at Walmart a couple weeks ago.
God breathed the Originals, then through preservation of copies of copies of copies... that Bible came into existence when the printer ran the paper through the printing press.

What you are looking for is called "derived inspiration".. Where the Bibles we have today have derived their inspiration through the preservation of copies. So this means that all my copies of the Bible are inspired through derivation.

And with that, I can proclaim my KJV is the Word of God... Same as I can say my NIV is the Word of God.

 

[Johnv]

Still waiting for answer to my questions for Harold Garvey:

Do you believe that God promised to preserve a specific original manuscript apart from others?

Is it your position, therefore, that translations are inspired?

 

[Trotter]

You have apparently misunderstood the meaning of "inspiration"...

Inspiration is "God Breathed"...
God only did this with the originals...

God did not breathe the Bible I bought at Walmart a couple weeks ago.
God breathed the Originals, then through preservation of copies of copies of copies... that Bible came into existence when the printer ran the paper through the printing press.

What you are looking for is called "derived inspiration".. Where the Bibles we have today have derived their inspiration through the preservation of copies. So this means that all my copies of the Bible are inspired through derivation.

And with that, I can proclaim my KJV is the Word of God... Same as I can say my NIV is the Word of God.

Well put. I was trying to say that but my words failed me.

 

[DHK]

If inspiration took place only once, when and where did translations either kill the inspiration, or when and where did God lose the capability to maintian that inspiration?

Here is my question to you:

If I translate the first chapter of John from Greek into English (which I can do), is my translation inspired? Why or why not?

 

[Harold Garvey]

You have apparently misunderstood the meaning of "inspiration"...

Inspiration is "God Breathed"...
God only did this with the originals...

Show me from Scripture what you have to back this up.

God did not breathe the Bible I bought at Walmart a couple weeks ago.

Then that is not God's word. You bought man's word and the agnostics are right.

God breathed the Originals, then through preservation of copies of copies of copies... that Bible came into existence when the printer ran the paper through the printing press.

Oh? So all those books penned by the scribes were not Bibles?

What you are looking for is called "derived inspiration".. Where the Bibles we have today have derived their inspiration through the preservation of copies. So this means that all my copies of the Bible are inspired through derivation.

And with that, I can proclaim my KJV is the Word of God... Same as I can say my NIV is the Word of God.

Of course you can invent something and use it to prove your point, but then you cannot exactly say when and where the word of God lost its inspiration which makes it alive and is where we find the word of God which is able to save men's souls.

My Bible does not have this "derivation" as you perceive. it has the same impact upon men's hearts as the first onset of inspiration and is passed on into all generations just as God said it would be.

But thanks for pointing out where you think the Bible, um, isn't.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Still waiting for answer to my questions for Harold Garvey:

Do you believe that God promised to preserve a specific original manuscript apart from others?

Is it your position, therefore, that translations are inspired?

Did God pen His words down or did man as God inspired him?

 

[Harold Garvey]

Well put. I was trying to say that but my words failed me.

Wrong "well".

 

[Harold Garvey]

Here is my question to you:

If I translate the first chapter of John from Greek into English (which I can do), is my translation inspired? Why or why not?

Depends upon your objectivity doesn't it?

I thought you were one of those who says the Greek cannot be exactly translated into English? I know it can.

In fact, some of our words are formed from our understanding of the Greek. Even a Greek word can be taken into the English language and made use of it.

take agape' You might say that's Greek, but then you speak English and explain it to me what the Greek word means. You just translated it into English. it then becomes understood in English in a different form. Since you say agape' is inpired, when did changing the form "uninspire" it? it didn't, it was translated.

translation doesn't take away from inspiration, interpretation can and does when it becomes derivation.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

Depends upon your objectivity doesn't it?

I thought you were one of those who says the Greek cannot be exactly translated into English? I know it can.

Then why isn't?
Here is but one example:

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

This is not an accurate translation.
Neither God, nor "forbid" are in the Greek. It is called "dynamic equivalency." It is an English expression that conveys as closely as possible what the KJV translators thought the Greek was saying. But that is very subjective isn't it? And that is up to the one studying the Bible to find out what it says, not what the translator thinks it says, else we might as well just invest all of our money in paraphrases.

An accurate translation of the phrase is "may it not be."

 

[DHK]

Depends upon your objectivity doesn't it?

You would agree that if I am objective I am just as inspired as the Apostle Paul. I am flattered.

 

[tinytim]

Show me from Scripture what you have to back this up.

The very word "inspired" means "God-breathed"...

Then that is not God's word. You bought man's word and the agnostics are right.

Funny you should say that in reference to the Bible I bought.. (Which happens to be a KJV.)

Oh? So all those books penned by the scribes were not Bibles?

Scribes COPIED the originals (which were inspired) and copies of copies... Hence derived inspiration... Come on, it's not that hard to understand.

Of course you can invent something and use it to prove your point, but then you cannot exactly say when and where the word of God lost its inspiration which makes it alive and is where we find the word of God which is able to save men's souls.

Not inventing anything.. and the word of God has never lost it's inspiration.. That was a one time event for each book in the Bible...

My Bible does not have this "derivation" as you perceive. it has the same impact upon men's hearts as the first onset of inspiration and is passed on into all generations just as God said it would be.

Yes,... that's called preservation... NOT inspiration.. go study definitions of words.. or take a class on how the Bible was given to man.

But thanks for pointing out where you think the Bible, um, isn't.

You are welcome.:thumbsup:

 

[Harold Garvey]

Then why isn't?
Here is but one example:

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

This is not an accurate translation.
Neither God, nor "forbid" are in the Greek. It is called "dynamic equivalency." It is an English expression that conveys as closely as possible what the KJV translators thought the Greek was saying. But that is very subjective isn't it? And that is up to the one studying the Bible to find out what it says, not what the translator thinks it says, else we might as well just invest all of our money in paraphrases.

An accurate translation of the phrase is "may it not be."

Nope, sin may not ever be lived in by the saved man without due recompense from the Lord, God forbids it. the KJV relates this very well, well, except for those who look for loopholes in the Bible.

call it what you will, but God does not allow His children to continue in sin

 

[Harold Garvey]

You would agree that if I am objective I am just as inspired as the Apostle Paul. I am flattered.

award yourself what you will, but you know exactly what I meant.

If you'd like to subject the word of God to your interpretation then what culminates would not be the word of God but your words.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

Nope, sin may not ever be lived in by the saved man without due recompense from the Lord, God forbids it. the KJV relates this very well, well, except for those who look for loopholes in the Bible.

call it what you will, but God does not allow His children to continue in sin

I am not talking about "meaning" Harold, I am talking about "translation." There is a difference. Does it make a difference to you if the Bible is translated accurately by the translator, or just if they put something that means approximately the same as what Paul or any of the other apostles actually wrote. Is it right to tamper with the actual words of God? Sure the meaning comes across as you would understand it. But as I said: neither "God," nor "forbid" are in the Greek MSS. They aren't there. If they aren't there what right does a translator have in putting them there? That is a mistake on the part of the translator.

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:2 Far be the thought. We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it? (Darby)

Romans 6:2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? (WEB)

See the differences between the three translations. Darby's and the World's English Bible have translated it more accurately, more literally. The most literal is in the WEB. The KJV has failed in this particular translation.

mh genoito oitineV

That is as good as a copy and paste of the Greek text will get in my computer programs. But there is no God there. And there is no forbid there. Believe me. The other translations are far more accurate.

 

[DHK]

award yourself what you will, but you know exactly what I meant.

What exactly did you mean? You don't accept the truth as 1Pet.1:21 teaches: that only "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit," refers to the OT prophets, and by extension the NT apostles. You believe that Peter is referring to the KJV translators as well, an impossible interpretation.

If the KJV is inspired which is only a translation, then my translation is inspired as well, as can any translation. That is the only logical conclusion.
But remember that the Greek term "inspiration" means "God breathed." This is not man's teaching. This is what a Greek-speaking person would tell you. That is the meaning of the word.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

inspiration: the Greek is "qeopneustoV theopneustos theh-op'-nyoo-stos

theopneustos. Theo from theos means God.
Pneustos from pneuma means breath or spirit.
Thus the word means "God-breathed."
Or as Strong's puts it: " divinely breathed in:--given by
inspiration of God."

The only time that God "divinely breathed in" is when he breathed into his disciples the very words that he wanted them to put on paper. He did not do this with copyists or translators. He breathed into the disciples the words that he wanted put on paper.
And those words have been preserved for us.
Preservation is different than inspiration.

If you'd like to subject the word of God to your interpretation then what culminates would not be the word of God but your words.:smilewinkgrin:

The Word of God interprets itself. We were speaking about translation, and the accuracy thereof. If I am accurate in translation, and every translation is inspired, then according to you I am just as inspired as Paul. But we know that is not the truth, because only the Prophets and Apostles were inspired.

 

[Thermodynamics]

I have never "pounced" on you or anyone else, hope you're not referring to me.

Harold, I was not referring to you at all, you (as well as Jim who I was also not talking about) have never been anything but pleasant to me.

There are a few people here (who I will not name) that seem to love nothing better that to start a fight.

 

[Thermodynamics]

Jim, great photo. What kind of leather is the cover and how has it held up?

 

[Bayouparson]

...Each and every one of them is inspired in that the original was inspired, but none of them (nor any other translation in existence) is inspired in and of itself. God inspired the original authors, not the scribes who copied or the translators who translated the writings into other languages.

Here is a statement that I posted in another thread and there was not opportunity to respond since the administrators closed the thread. I said,

"Since you say no translation is inspired, then consider Acts 22:1-21 which was spoken in Hebrew by the Apostle Paul (see Acts 21:40). You won't find a manuscript anywhere that has this message by Paul in Hebrew, only in Greek. The Hebrew Paul spoke had to be translated by someone. If your statement is true then what Paul said in the Greek is not inspired (since it is translated) and the whole message was nothing more than a cornered Jew that had to talk his way out of a mess. There are other examples in case you are interested. One other point. If only the original [autographs] are inspired then you have never seen a verse of inspired scripture since there is not an original manuscript in captivity anywhere on this earth."

P.S. Your statement that God inspired the "original" authors is not true according to 2 Tim. 3:16. There it says that "all scripture" is inspired. It says nothing about the authors.

 

[DHK]

P.S. Your statement that God inspired the "original" authors is not true according to 2 Tim. 3:16. There it says that "all scripture" is inspired. It says nothing about the authors.

You are correct in saying "it is the writings that are inspired." The original manuscripts are the only manuscripts that are inspired; no copies, no translations, nothing else but the originals. There was no secondary or subsequent inspiration.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Clearly God used men of God to pen inspired writings. The holy men of were not KJV translators. They were prophets and apostles that the Holy Spirit used.

Luke wrote in Greek when he translated Paul's words. The NT was written in Greek. So, what is your problem in Acts 22. Luke is the author.

Look at this passage:

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Is this the inspired Word of God? Are they God's words? Did God say this? How do you account for this?
Inspired does not mean that God spoke it. It means that it is recorded exactly as God wanted it recorded whether or not it was originally spoken in another language or not. BTW, what language did the serpent originally speak in? We don't know. But Moses recorded the words of that revelation in Hebrew.

And Luke recorded the events of the life of Paul in Greek. And that is what is important. The MSS that are inspired are written in Greek. (In the NT)