Where is the Gospel in Acts 2 as the Calvinists preach it?

[Winman]

I'm going to say no, and here's why.

I recall that day, as a nine-year-old, when the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sin, and drew me to the Lord Jesus. Up to that moment, I had heard many sermons, sat through many invitations, and had never understood what it meant to be lost. That Sunday morning, however, the Holy Spirit illuminated my understanding of my lostness. The Lord saved me that morning.

If my pastor had asked me, do you understand that salvation is by grace and that grace is irresistible, you would have gotten a blank stare, or a "Huh?"

If my pastor had asked me, do you understand that before you came down that aisle, the Holy Spirit had already regenerated you, my answer would have been "What chu talkin' about?"

I never heard either of those things discussed until I was an adult.

I imagine that most, if not all of those to whom Peter preached, had never heard them either.

The gospel is neither of those things. Our message to the lost is Jesus died for sinners. Repent, and trust Christ and him alone for salvation.

What if a Reformed preacher preached what he really believes? What if he said, "Jesus Christ MIGHT have died for SOME of you that hear my voice this morning, but I can't be sure. He might love you and want to save you, but maybe not. You might be the elect, but I can't say for certain. But to be honest, God might not love you, and Jesus may have not died for you. But if you can trust this Jesus to save you, he will."

Boy, would that encourage faith!

No, Peter told all his hearers that Jesus died for them, their children, and all that be afar off, as many as God "shall call".

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And how many did Jesus command the gospel be preached to?

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

No man is excluded, all men are called by the gospel.

 

[Winman]

Winman,

Perhaps you missed the part of the post that states to whom Paul is discussing in Romans 8!

"There is therefore NO condemnation to them who are ..." begins the discussion of BELIEVERS. Those BELIEVERS who are carnally minded and those who are Spiritually tuned.

That the discussion can apply to the unregenerate is ONLY in that there is NO spiritual side from which the unregenerate have to draw from, only the carnal mind of the flesh fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

But the BELIEVERS have a double life ability for they have two natures that war against each other.

I am not re-defining words.

You are taking a verse out of context and attempting to misapply it.

Perhaps you will do better by posting the whole of Romans 8 and demonstrating that I am wrong rather than selecting a single verse and making a stand that is not supported by the balance of that passage.

I am redefining nothing, Romans 8:9 clearly states that a man is not in the flesh if the Holy Spirit dwells in him. Therefore the opposite is true, if the Holy Spirit does not dwell in a man, then that man is in the flesh. That man is not a spiritual man, he is a natural man, a man of the flesh.

The men in Acts 2 were very convicted, yet they had not received the Spirit yet. Peter told them they must first repent and be baptized in Jesus's name for the forgiveness of their sins before they would receive the Spirit. Therefore, natural men, men in the flesh can repent and believe the gospel.

That natural men can repent/believe the gospel and afterward receive the Spirit is confirmed by many scriptures, especially Galatians 3:2 and Ephesians 1:13, there are many other besides.

Pro 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Here God tells men to turn (repent) at his reproof and he will pour out his spirit unto them.

 

[Iconoclast]

Romans 8 does not apply here. This is about Acts and acts 2 alone. Did the men hearing the gospel from Peter understand that man is regenerated and grace is irresistible?

Mandy-

This first sermon addresses the covenant promises included through out the Ot.

Joel 2
psalm16
psalm 110

This one passage does not include several key theological truths.
it does not describe many truths;
being born again
sanctification
intermediate state
adoption
reconciliation
church government
reality of hell
prayer
mortification of sin

So Mandy- are you trying to say that if the exact terms are not used here, then they do not apply? Tell me you are not suggesting this


God is sovereign in salvation 100&.....he saves sinners....many who do not understand much of the theology at the time they are regenerated. That does not mean that a study of the whole of scriptures will not yield the theology that many past saints have seen.
It does not mean that all scripture is not to be searched out.

The truths of regeneration,the effectual call of God's irresistable grace or regeneration are found in many places, not one initial sermon, by an Apostle.

 

[Tom Butler]

So Calvinism is not the gospel?

If I remember right, Spurgeon said it is. But I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that such matters as irresistible grace and regeneration/salvation are meat, when newborn believers need milk first. So the message is Christ died for sinners, and call upon his name and you'll be saved.

 

[Tom Butler]

What if a Reformed preacher preached what he really believes? What if he said, "Jesus Christ MIGHT have died for SOME of you that hear my voice this morning, but I can't be sure. He might love you and want to save you, but maybe not. You might be the elect, but I can't say for certain. But to be honest, God might not love you, and Jesus may have not died for you. But if you can trust this Jesus to save you, he will."

Boy, would that encourage faith!

Actually, it just might. But I've never heard any preacher of any stripe ever make that kind of exhortation.

No, Peter told all his hearers that Jesus died for them, their children, and all that be afar off, as many as God "shall call".

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The way I read it, the promise is to all those whom the Lord will call. For those who answer, it is the effectual call (some call it the Inward Call).

And how many did Jesus command the gospel be preached to?

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

No man is excluded, all men are called by the gospel.

Paul also told the people on Mars Hill (Acts 17) that God calls all men everywhere to repent. And Jesus himself (Matt 5:48) said we must be perfect, just like the Father. No one should claim that because Jesus said we must, that we can.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Actually, it just might. But I've never heard any preacher of any stripe ever make that kind of exhortation.



The way I read it, the promise is to all those whom the Lord will call. For those who answer, it is the effectual call (some call it the Inward Call).



Paul also told the people on Mars Hill (Acts 17) that God calls all men everywhere to repent. And Jesus himself (Matt 5:48) said we must be perfect, just like the Father. No one should claim that because Jesus said we must, that we can.

For Spurgion it was enough to say, " You are a sinner, and Jesus died for sinners. If you would be saved, you must repent of your sins & believe in the gospel."

 

[mandym]

Mandy-

This first sermon addresses the covenant promises included through out the Ot.

Joel 2
psalm16
psalm 110

This one passage does not include several key theological truths.
it does not describe many truths;
being born again
sanctification
intermediate state
adoption
reconciliation
church government
reality of hell
prayer
mortification of sin

So Mandy- are you trying to say that if the exact terms are not used here, then they do not apply? Tell me you are not suggesting this


God is sovereign in salvation 100&.....he saves sinners....many who do not understand much of the theology at the time they are regenerated. That does not mean that a study of the whole of scriptures will not yield the theology that many past saints have seen.
It does not mean that all scripture is not to be searched out.

The truths of regeneration,the effectual call of God's irresistable grace or regeneration are found in many places, not one initial sermon, by an Apostle.

I am not talking about all of scripture. I am only talking about this one single passage or event.

 

[Winman]

Paul also told the people on Mars Hill (Acts 17) that God calls all men everywhere to repent. And Jesus himself (Matt 5:48) said we must be perfect, just like the Father. No one should claim that because Jesus said we must, that we can.

And why do you assume all men cannot repent? You are guilty of the very offence you accuse me of.

As for Mat 5:48, you pull it out of context. Jesus is not saying we have to be sinless, no man can be perfectly sinless. Jesus was saying we must be spiritually mature or complete, we should be like our Father and love those that hate us, and do good to those who do evil to us as our Father has done. We are quite capable of doing this.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

You can't pull verse 48 out of context (well, you can, but it is error) and interpret this to be saying a man must be absolutely sinless, that is not what Jesus was saying. He was saying we must be spiritually mature or complete and love our enemies as God loved us, even when we were sinners.

And this we are ABLE to do.

 

[Mexdeaf]

If I remember right, Spurgeon said it is. But I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that such matters as irresistible grace and regeneration/salvation are meat, when newborn believers need milk first. So the message is Christ died for sinners, and call upon his name and you'll be saved.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Peter by the holy Spirit found the gospel in Joel 2.

Some try and pry into the unseen secret work of the Spirit. this is not wise.We know it happens as jesus taught in Jn 3.
Regeneration happens at conversion when The Spirit of God quickens a dead sinner to life, enabling him to believe the gospel, or the good news about Jesus person and work. Peter opens up the gospel from the book of Joel,saying pentecost fulfills Joel 2.

After describing the events he begins to Preach Jesus as Lord and Christ.unless accompanied by the Spirit of God, this preaching would not enter hearts and minds. The fact that thousands were convicted of sin. and then were willing to believe shows that God made them willing in the day of his power, as salvation does not happen in any other way.




But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Agedman mentioned this already




[/B]40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

44 And all that believed were together,


No natural man can believe savingly. so when it says they believed, it was the unseen work of the Spirit.



47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Salvation being of the LORD...it says God added to the church...such as should be saved......no nosensical ....God wanted all to be saved.....God added such as should be saved[the elect}

And those ones ones who were saved are none other then the "whosoever-wills.

 

[MorseOp]

I cannot figure out how else to ask the question. When Peter preached this sermon sharing the gospel did the people listening to him and receiving the gospel understand that grace is irresistible and men are regenerated before before salvation?

It does not matter what they believed about either issue. A person who comes to faith in Christ does not need to know theological terms like justification, sanctification, regeneration, irresistible grace et. al. All they need to understand is the message of the Gospel (Rom. 1:16). As a person grows in their Christian faith they will have to wrestle with many of the great doctrines of scripture, but that is after they become a Christian.

 

[Iconoclast]

And those ones ones who were saved are none other then the "whosoever-wills.

You say this as if it was a news flash,the whosoever wills are the elect who are made willing.....if God did not enable them they would never believe.
because it does not mention election in the sermon by that exact word...it is covered by as many as our God shall call.:thumbsup::thumbsup:....and The Lord added to the church...it does not say, they added themselves ,then God elected them also.

 

[MorseOp]

What if a Reformed preacher preached what he really believes? What if he said, "Jesus Christ MIGHT have died for SOME of you that hear my voice this morning, but I can't be sure. He might love you and want to save you, but maybe not. You might be the elect, but I can't say for certain. But to be honest, God might not love you, and Jesus may have not died for you. But if you can trust this Jesus to save you, he will."

Boy, would that encourage faith!

No, Peter told all his hearers that Jesus died for them, their children, and all that be afar off, as many as God "shall call".

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And how many did Jesus command the gospel be preached to?

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

No man is excluded, all men are called by the gospel.

Winman,

Your post is plain foolishness. When I preach the Gospel I preach Law and Grace. Law = Man has transgressed God's Law and stands condemned. Grace = Christ's death satisfied God's wrath and all that repent and place their faith in Christ will have their sins forgiven because of Him. Yes. As a Calvinist I believe that only the elect will respond, but no human being knows who is elect and who is not. That knowledge belongs to God alone. I preach the Gospel to all who will listen and call on all who listen to repent and believe. That is all I care about when I preach. The Calvinist pastors I know believe and practice the same thing. They preach like Arminians, in that they preach to all and put no qualifications on those they preach to.

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman,

Your post is plain foolishness. When I preach the Gospel I preach Law and Grace. Law = Man has transgressed God's Law and stands condemned. Grace = Christ's death satisfied God's wrath and all that repent and place their faith in Christ will have their sins forgiven because of Him. Yes. As a Calvinist I believe that only the elect will respond, but no human being knows who is elect and who is not. That knowledge belongs to God alone. I preach the Gospel to all who will listen and call on all who listen to repent and believe. That is all I care about when I preach. The Calvinist pastors I know believe and practice the same thing. They preach like Arminians, in that they preach to all and put no qualifications on those they preach to.

Of course morseop....most know that is true:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

Originally Posted by Winman
What if a Reformed preacher preached what he really believes? What if he said, "Jesus Christ MIGHT have died for SOME of you that hear my voice this morning, but I can't be sure. He might love you and want to save you, but maybe not. You might be the elect, but I can't say for certain. But to be honest, God might not love you, and Jesus may have not died for you. But if you can trust this Jesus to save you, he will."

What if a Reformed preacher preached what he really believes?

It would be like this....Jesus died to save sinners, a whole multitude of them.
You who hear my voice are all qualified having died in Adam
The love of God expressed in the cross.....is only found IN JESUS///If you remain apart from Jesus you remain apart from His love and still under the wrath to come.
God has elected a multitude of sinners to be saved, and at a point in time they will respond savingly to the gospel.
Today is the day of salvation.Today if you would hear his voice,harden not you hearts:wavey::wavey::wavey:

 

[Winman]

Winman,

Your post is plain foolishness. When I preach the Gospel I preach Law and Grace. Law = Man has transgressed God's Law and stands condemned. Grace = Christ's death satisfied God's wrath and all that repent and place their faith in Christ will have their sins forgiven because of Him. Yes. As a Calvinist I believe that only the elect will respond, but no human being knows who is elect and who is not. That knowledge belongs to God alone. I preach the Gospel to all who will listen and call on all who listen to repent and believe. That is all I care about when I preach. The Calvinist pastors I know believe and practice the same thing. They preach like Arminians, in that they preach to all and put no qualifications on those they preach to.

Do you tell your listeners that Jesus died for their sins? What do you tell them?

What is it you tell them to believe? That Jesus died for sins? Whose sins? Did Jesus pay for everyone's sins?

I bet you preach like an Arminian, because if you really said what you believed, no one would ever be saved.

 

[Winman]

What you teach is faith in faith itself, as though believing something makes it so. That is pure error.

You could believe the world is flat, doesn't make it so.

If Limited Atonement is true, a person could convince themselves that Jesus died for their sins, when in fact Jesus did not die for their sins. This person is deceived and will die and go to hell, regardless of what he believes if Limited Atonement is true.

No, Jesus died for ALL men everywhere. When you understand this, you are placing your faith in fact, you are placing your faith directly upon the work Jesus has absolutely performed for you.

Fact is, if you believe in Limited Atonement, then you don't have a clue as to whether Jesus died for you. You don't even know if you are saved. You could be self-deceived and on your way to hell, doesn't matter what you believe.

 

[MorseOp]

Winman,

Paul and Silas told the Philippian jailer:

Acts 16:31 31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Acts 17:30 announces:

Acts 17:30 30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

That is the message I preach. If a person professes Christ, I have absolute confidence that Jesus has saved them. The only way that confidence can be broken is if they apostate:

1 John 2:19 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Winman, you are looking for the Calvinist Bogeyman. "Watch out! The Calvinist Bogeyman is coming to rob you of your assurance of salvation! He will not tell you that he believes in definite atonement." Pure poppycock.

One thing I will never do is use gimmicks like having them write their spiritual birthday on the inside of their bible, or patting them on the back and saying to them, "Welcome to the family of God." No. The sinner who professes Christ has become a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. That journey begins immediately. They will be taught, prayed for, prayed with, encouraged, disciplined, befriended, utilized etc. As they grow in grace, so will there assurance.

 

[MorseOp]

What you teach is faith in faith itself, as though believing something makes it so. That is pure error.

So, now I am a liar?

 

[Winman]

So, now I am a liar?

I didn't call you a liar. What I am saying is that if you believe Limited Atonement is true, then you believe Jesus only died for some men, and you have no idea who these men are. You don't even know if Jesus died for YOU if Limited Atonement is true. You can tell me all night and day Jesus died for you, if Limited Atonement is true, you have absolutely no way of knowing this. Your faith could very well be a false faith, you may have simply convinced yourself you are saved and are self-deceived.

Oh, you will then say your life proves you are saved. No it doesn't. Just because you read the Bible, or go to church, or give money to the church, etc.. does not prove you are saved, you are simply trying to prove your salvation to yourself if you are not sure you are one of the elect. And you can't possibly know this.

I am not trying to make you doubt your salvation, if you believe in Limited Atonement I am sure you already doubt if you have given this doctrine any serious thought at all. You know as well as I do that you have no assurance you are one of the elect if your doctrine is true, no Calvinist does.

I am not trying to make you doubt, but I am exposing the glaring error of Calvinism and the doctrine of Limited Atonement. If a person believes LA they must necessarily work to prove to themselves they are one of the elect and saved. This doctrine turns salvation into a works salvation.

Get mad if you want, but you know in your heart I am telling you the truth.

A person who believes in Unlimited Atonement does not need to work to prove to themselves they are saved, they simply trust Christ, they take God at his word that Jesus died for them personally and come to Jesus in their heart and trust him to save them. No work required, complete assurance.

This is why so many Calvinists are 4 pointers, and the doctrine they almost always reject is Limited Atonement. They have to, or else the doctrine is unbearable.