Where is the Gospel in Acts 2 as the Calvinists preach it?

[Winman]

From Wiki, on 4 point Calvinism. As you can see, just as I told you, it is Limited Atonement they reject. They HAVE to.

Four-point Calvinism
Main article: Amyraldism
Another revision of Calvinism is called "Amyraldism", "hypothetical universalism", or "four-point Calvinism", also known as Four-point Calvinism, Moderate Calvinism, Modified Calvinism, or Unlimited Limited Atonement. This drops the limited atonement in favor of an unlimited atonement saying that God has provided Christ's atonement for all alike, but seeing that none would believe on their own, he then elects those whom he will bring to faith in Christ, thereby preserving the Calvinist doctrine of unconditional election.[26]
This doctrine was most thoroughly systematized by the French Reformed theologian at the Academy of Saumur, Moses Amyraut, for whom it is named. His formulation was an attempt to bring Calvinism more nearly alongside the Lutheran view. In England, hypothetical universalism (which is not entirely consistent with Amyraldianism) was held by the early 17th century theologians John Davenant and John Preston and was propounded at the Westminster Assembly by the English Presbyterian leaders Edmund Calamy the Elder, Lazarus Seaman and Stephen Marshall. In a different, more idiosyncratic form, it was expounded in England by the writings of the Reformed pastor Richard Baxter and gained strong adherence among the Congregationalists and some Presbyterians in the American colonies, during the 17th and 18th centuries.[citation needed]
Amyraldism can be found among various evangelical groups in the United States and within the Anglican Diocese of Sydney. "Four point" Calvinism is prevalent in conservative and moderate groups among Presbyterian churches, Reformed churches, Reformed Baptists and some non-denominational churches, and is not uncommon among evangelical members of the Church of England.[citation needed]
Historically, Amyraldism has been called "moderate Calvinism",[27] but Norman Geisler uses this term to describe his own views, which James R. White calls "merely a modified form of historic Arminianism."[28]
R. C. Sproul believes there is confusion about what the doctrine of limited atonement actually teaches. While he considers it possible for a person to believe four points without believing the fifth, he claims that a person who really understands the other four points must believe in limited atonement because of what Martin Luther called a resistless logic.[26]
Mark Driscoll calls this "Unlimited Limited Atonement", or "Four-and-a-half point Calvinism", whereby Jesus, by dying for everyone, purchased everyone as His possession and He then applies His forgiveness to the elect by grace and applies His wrath to the non-elect. Objectively, Jesus' death was sufficient to save anyone, and, subjectively, only efficient to save those who repent of their sin and trust in Him.[29]

As you see, this issue is hundreds of years old, so I am not arguing a fallacy, but a real and true issue within Calvinism.

But I agree with what Luther said, if Limited Atonement fails (and it does), then the whole system collapses like a house of cards.

 

[MorseOp]

Winman,

Definite atonement actually aides in the assurance of the believer. Jesus Christ died for His elect. Those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are genuinely saved. They are among God's elect. They have the testimony of scripture (1 John 5:13) and the testimony of the Holy Spirit to provide them assurance of their salvation (Romans 8:16). You are making a false accusation and creating a fallacious controversy. You are the one who has a problem with definite atonement, and that is okay. But save your diatribe for those who agree with you. Those who hold to definite atonement know that their salvation is assured in Christ.

 

[Mexdeaf]

You don't even know if Jesus died for YOU if Limited Atonement is true. You can tell me all night and day Jesus died for you, if Limited Atonement is true, you have absolutely no way of knowing this. Your faith could very well be a false faith, you may have simply convinced yourself you are saved and are self-deceived.

Oh, you will then say your life proves you are saved. No it doesn't. Just because you read the Bible, or go to church, or give money to the church, etc.. does not prove you are saved, you are simply trying to prove your salvation to yourself if you are not sure you are one of the elect. And you can't possibly know this.

I am not trying to make you doubt your salvation, if you believe in Limited Atonement I am sure you already doubt if you have given this doctrine any serious thought at all. You know as well as I do that you have no assurance you are one of the elect if your doctrine is true, no Calvinist does.

I am not trying to make you doubt, but I am exposing the glaring error of Calvinism and the doctrine of Limited Atonement. If a person believes LA they must necessarily work to prove to themselves they are one of the elect and saved. This doctrine turns salvation into a works salvation.

Get mad if you want, but you know in your heart I am telling you the truth.

A person who believes in Unlimited Atonement does not need to work to prove to themselves they are saved, they simply trust Christ, they take God at his word that Jesus died for them personally and come to Jesus in their heart and trust him to save them. No work required, complete assurance.

This is why so many Calvinists are 4 pointers, and the doctrine they almost always reject is Limited Atonement. They have to, or else the doctrine is unbearable.

Wow, such misunderstanding here I'm not sure where to begin... or even if I should since so many others have tried to correct your erroneous comments regarding Calvinism.

There is a way we know we are saved- Romans 8 tells us how, especially verse 16-

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"

And 1 John 3:23,24

"And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us."

I believe in Limited Atonement and I know I am saved because His Spirit dwells within me and I evidence that by having a love for Him and for my brothers in the Family.

Limited Atonement has nothing to do with assurance of salvation, it has everything to do with the saving value of the precious blood of Christ.

Spurgeon said- "Christ’s blood is too precious to have been shed for men who are damned. It is too awful a thing to think of the Saviour standing in a sinner’s stead, and then that sinner after all having to bear his own iniquities; I can never indulge a thought which appears to be so unrighteous to God, and so unsafe to men. All that the Saviour bought he shall have, all that his heavenly Father hath given him, he says, shall come unto him."

"We are often told that we limit the atonement of Christ, because we say that Christ has not made a satisfaction for all men, or all men would be saved. Now, our reply to this is, that, on the other hand, our opponents limit it: we do not. The Arminians say, Christ died for all men. Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, "No, certainly not." We ask them the next question — Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They answer " No." They are obliged to admit this if they are consistent. They say "No, Christ has died that any man may be saved if" — and then follow certain conditions of salvation. We say, then, we will just go back to the old statement — Christ did not die so as beyond a doubt to secure the salvation of anybody, did he? You must say "No;" you are obliged to say so, for you believe that even after a man has been pardoned, he may yet fall from grace, and perish. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why, you. You say that Christ did not die so as to infallibly secure the salvation of anybody, We beg your pardon, when you say we limit Christ’s death; we say, "No, my dear sir, it is you that do it. We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ’s death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved, and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it. Now, beloved, when you hear any one laughing or jeering at a limited atonement, you may tell him this. General atonement is like a great wide bridge with only half an arch; it does not go across the stream: it only professes to go half way, it does not secure the salvation of anybody. Now, I had rather put my foot upon a bridge as narrow as Hungerford, which went all the way across, than on a bridge that was as wide as the world, if it did not go all the way across the stream."

 

[Winman]

Wow, such misunderstanding here I'm not sure where to begin... or even if I should since so many others have tried to correct your erroneous comments regarding Calvinism.

There is a way we know we are saved- Romans 8 tells us how, especially verse 16-

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"

And 1 John 3:23,24

"And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us."

I believe in Limited Atonement and I know I am saved because His Spirit dwells within me and I evidence that by having a love for Him and for my brothers in the Family.

Limited Atonement has nothing to do with assurance of salvation, it has everything to do with the saving value of the precious blood of Christ.

Spurgeon said- "Christ’s blood is too precious to have been shed for men who are damned. It is too awful a thing to think of the Saviour standing in a sinner’s stead, and then that sinner after all having to bear his own iniquities; I can never indulge a thought which appears to be so unrighteous to God, and so unsafe to men. All that the Saviour bought he shall have, all that his heavenly Father hath given him, he says, shall come unto him."

"We are often told that we limit the atonement of Christ, because we say that Christ has not made a satisfaction for all men, or all men would be saved. Now, our reply to this is, that, on the other hand, our opponents limit it: we do not. The Arminians say, Christ died for all men. Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, "No, certainly not." We ask them the next question — Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They answer " No." They are obliged to admit this if they are consistent. They say "No, Christ has died that any man may be saved if" — and then follow certain conditions of salvation. We say, then, we will just go back to the old statement — Christ did not die so as beyond a doubt to secure the salvation of anybody, did he? You must say "No;" you are obliged to say so, for you believe that even after a man has been pardoned, he may yet fall from grace, and perish. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why, you. You say that Christ did not die so as to infallibly secure the salvation of anybody, We beg your pardon, when you say we limit Christ’s death; we say, "No, my dear sir, it is you that do it. We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ’s death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved, and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it. Now, beloved, when you hear any one laughing or jeering at a limited atonement, you may tell him this. General atonement is like a great wide bridge with only half an arch; it does not go across the stream: it only professes to go half way, it does not secure the salvation of anybody. Now, I had rather put my foot upon a bridge as narrow as Hungerford, which went all the way across, than on a bridge that was as wide as the world, if it did not go all the way across the stream."

Spurgeon can't help you, if Limited Atonement is true, you have absolutely no way to know if you are one of the elect and that Jesus died for you.

Many people will believe themselves saved when they are not.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Notice these false believers called Jesus "Lord", in fact it is emphasized, being said twice in two verses. Then these persons boasted of their obedience and service to Christ, they prophesied in his name, cast out devils, and did many wonderful works. Jesus said he never knew them.

Notice next that Jesus directly tells the story of a wise man who built his house on a rock, a solid foundation. The foolish man built his house on the sand. When the storm came, the house built on a rock stood, while the house built on sand fell.

If you do not know from scripture that Jesus personally died for you, your house is built on sand. Your only assurance is your own works as those men who boasted in verse 22. But if you know for a fact that Jesus personally died for you (and you can only know that if Unlimited Atonement is true), then your assurance is built on the rock, it is built on the solid word of God that Jesus died for you, and that you can safely trust in him. No works required.

Jesus did die for all men, but each man has to make his own free will choice and trust in Jesus personally to be saved. God does not believe for you.

 

[MorseOp]

Spurgeon can't help you, if Limited Atonement is true, you have absolutely no way to know if you are one of the elect and that Jesus died for you.

Wrong.

1 John 5:12-13 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 8:15-16 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Romans 10:9 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Winman, you are stuck on Wikipedia when you should be trusting in the truth of scripture.

 

[Amy.G]

Jesus did die for all men, but each man has to make his own free will choice and trust in Jesus personally to be saved. God does not believe for you.

How do explain all the millions/billions that have died never having so much as even heard of Jesus?

 

[Iconoclast]

How do explain all the millions/billions that have died never having so much as even heard of Jesus?

They have no rational scripture answer here AMYG....so they have to abuse
jn 1:9....and jn 12:32....to attempt a mystical answer.

I say mystical because they abuse the context of each verse, then they ascribe an open meaning......you know...somewhere ,somehow, it gets done fairly.....everyone gets an equal and fair chance. They cannot begin to give an actual answer however...as we have seen many times:wavey:

 

[Winman]

Wrong.

1 John 5:12-13 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 8:15-16 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Romans 10:9 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Winman, you are stuck on Wikipedia when you should be trusting in the truth of scripture.

I only showed Wiki to demonstrate that if there is any point of TULIP that is rejected by Calvinists, it is most commonly Limited Atonement. I don't care about Wiki, and I didn't need Wiki to figure out that if Limited Atonement is true, then no person could possibly know for certain if Jesus died for them and they are one of the elect. That is plain ol' common sense and logic.

It is you that is not thinking your own doctrine out. If Limited Atonement is true, you have no way to know if Jesus died for you. If Jesus did not die for you, it doesn't matter what you believe, you are going to hell. The fact that you might believe you are elect does not determine who Jesus died for, God determined that before you were born in your system. you might simply be self-deceived like the persons in Matthew 7.

Like I said earlier, you might believe the world is flat, doesn't make it so.

If Jesus did not die for you (and you do not know for certain that he did), your faith is meaningless, it won't change a thing, you are doomed.

If you can't understand this simple argument, you need to think again.

I know I am saved, because I know for a FACT Jesus died for me, as the scriptures say he tasted death for every man. That includes me.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I don't care about Wiki, and I didn't need Wiki to figure out that if Limited Atonement is true, then no person could possibly know for certain if Jesus died for them and they are one of the elect. That is plain ol' common sense and logic.

It is you that is not thinking your own doctrine out. If Limited Atonement is true, you have no way to know if Jesus died for you. If Jesus did not die for you, it doesn't matter what you believe, you are going to hell. The fact that you might believe you are elect does not determine who Jesus died for, God determined that before you were born in your system. you might simply be self-deceived like the persons in Matthew 7.

Like I said earlier, you might believe the world is flat, doesn't make it so.

If Jesus did not die for you (and you do not know for certain that he did), your faith is meaningless, it won't change a thing, you are doomed.

If you can't understand this simple argument, you need to think again.

I know I am saved, because I know for a FACT Jesus died for me, as the scriptures say he tasted death for every man. That includes me.

I am afraid that you cannot see the forest for the trees. You are so sure that belief in a limited atonement MUST negate assurance of salvation that even Scriptural, spiritual evidence is not acceptable to you. God bless.

 

[MorseOp]

For the record: Amyraldians are not Calvinists. They are Amyraldians.

 

[Winman]

How do explain all the millions/billions that have died never having so much as even heard of Jesus?

I cannot explain these persons, and I have never seen any theologian whether Calvinist or not give a satisfactory answer.

Now children, I believe I can answer. I believe all children who die are saved. I believe once a person matures and understands right from wrong they then become accountable. Babies and small children do not know right from wrong, the scriptures clearly say this (Deu 1:39, Jon 4:11, Isa 7:16).

There are a few scriptures that seem to address the subject of those who have never heard.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Jesus here says that those who do not know God's will, but do things worthy of stripes shall be beaten with few stripes. So, it seems clear that every man is held accountable according to what he knows of God.

Romans tells us all men know somewhat of God, because God has revealed himself through creation, and all men are without excuse. Romans also tells us that those who sin without the law shall perish without the law because they have the law written on their hearts.

There are a few verses that seem to suggest men seek God, such as the Greeks who had the statue to the unknown God. Paul told them this was actually the true God.

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

Paul here seems to suggest that these Greeks in a sense worshiped the true God, though in ignorance.

There is the man who prayed for help.

Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

We do not know who this man is, or what he knew of the Lord, but he prayed for Paul to come into Macedonia, and Paul went to preach the gospel.

We have scripture that says God "winked" at ignorance.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

This was Paul again speaking to the men of Athens who worshiped idols, Paul said God "winked" at this ignorance, but now commanded all men everywhere to repent.

So, I can't say for certain how God deals with those who have never heard the gospel, but the scriptures suggest that God judges justly according to what a man knows or doesn't know.

This is the best I can do on this subject.

 

[Winman]

I am afraid that you cannot see the forest for the trees. You are so sure that belief in a limited atonement MUST negate assurance of salvation that even Scriptural, spiritual evidence is not acceptable to you. God bless.

And you can say anything you like, I can put myself in your shoes. If I believed that Jesus only died for some men, I would be very concerned that I was one of these fortunate few. I am not presumptuous enough to simply assume I am one of the elect, maybe you are.

I also realize that the only possible assurance I could have would be according to my works.

Examine those false believers in Matthew 7, what was their claim to salvation? They called Jesus "Lord, Lord", so they believed they were submitting to him as their master. They prophesied in his name, cast out devils in his name, and did many wonderful works in his name. This was their claim to salvation. Yet Jesus said he never knew them.

No, Jesus said those who do his Father's will shall be saved. And the will of the Father is to believe on Jesus, not depend on our works.

But you cannot depend on Jesus if you are not sure he died for you. Impossible. Oh, you can hope, but you cannot have a strong faith that will weather the storm.

This is why I said earlier, what would happen if you preached like a Calvinist? What if you told people that PERHAPS Jesus loves you, MAYBE Jesus died for you, and HOPEFULLY God elected you and wanted to save you. Would this inspire faith? It inspires doubt and fear, not faith.

At least you were man enough to admit you and all Calvinist preachers you know preach like Arminians. I respect you for that. But I think it strange you do not recognize that this reveals a real weakness in your doctrine. If Calvinism is true, preach it brother! Tell it like it is! The fact you and others do not do this is very revealing, I cannot see how you can ignore this fact.

 

[Mexdeaf]

This is why I said earlier, what would happen if you preached like a Calvinist? What if you told people that PERHAPS Jesus loves you, MAYBE Jesus died for you, and HOPEFULLY God elected you and wanted to save you. Would this inspire faith? It inspires doubt and fear, not faith.

At least you were man enough to admit you and all Calvinist preachers you know preach like Arminians. I respect you for that. But I think it strange you do not recognize that this reveals a real weakness in your doctrine. If Calvinism is true, preach it brother! Tell it like it is! The fact you and others do not do this is very revealing, I cannot see how you can ignore this fact.

Why should it be revealing? The only thing it reveals is that we believe in a Sovereign God who saves those He has chosen to save (or atone for), and since we do not know who is chosen to receive the atonement and who is not, we make the offer to all men. It's just, as you called it, "common sense".:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Winman]

Why should it be revealing? The only thing it reveals is that we believe in a Sovereign God who saves those He has chosen to save (or atone for), and since we do not know who is chosen to receive the atonement and who is not, we make the offer to all men. It's just, as you called it, "common sense".:smilewinkgrin:

It's revealing because you cannot honestly tell people what you sincerely believe. You cannot look any man in the eye and honestly tell him that Jesus absolutely loves him and absolutely died for him, and will absolutely save him if he trusts in Jesus.

If your doctrine is so fantastic, why don't you preach it like it is? Why don't you get up every Sunday and tell your congregation there is a real possibility that God never elected many of you and you are doomed to hell, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That is what you really believe, so why don't you preach it like you really believe?

No, you guys all turn Arminian when you preach. You tell everyone if they believe they will be saved, but that is not the truth if Limited Atonement is true. If you are not one of the elect and Jesus did not die for you, it doesn't matter if you believe he did, you are going to hell. You believing Jesus died for you doesn't make it so, just as if you believe the world is flat doesn't make it so.

You don't get it, if Jesus didn't die for you, it doesn't matter what you believe, you are out of luck.

 

[Mexdeaf]

It's revealing because you cannot honestly tell people what you sincerely believe. You cannot look any man in the eye and honestly tell him that Jesus absolutely loves him and absolutely died for him, and will absolutely save him if he trusts in Jesus.

If your doctrine is so fantastic, why don't you preach it like it is? Why don't you get up every Sunday and tell your congregation there is a real possibility that God never elected many of you and you are doomed to hell, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That is what you really believe, so why don't you preach it like you really believe?

No, you guys all turn Arminian when you preach. You tell everyone if they believe they will be saved, but that is not the truth if Limited Atonement is true. If you are not one of the elect and Jesus did not die for you, it doesn't matter if you believe he did, you are going to hell. You believing Jesus died for you doesn't make it so, just as if you believe the world is flat doesn't make it so.

You don't get it, if Jesus didn't die for you, it doesn't matter what you believe, you are out of luck.

I CAN and do honestly say all of the things above and that does NOT make me an Arminian.

I DO get it- if Jesus didn't die for you, you won't care to hear the Gospel, or if you "hear" it you won't respond. That's what YOU don't understand- you try to make it all on man responding to the message with no work of God required to enlighten their darkness and open their spiritual eyes and ears.

Here's a Spurgeon classic for you that lays it all out if you wish to read it: http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0052.htm

It really isn't about atonement- it is about who WILL hear and respond. Who will? No one but God knows.

 

[Mexdeaf]

From the link posted above:

I preach that every man who believes shall be saved—that every man who comes shall find mercy. People ask me, "But suppose a man should come who was not chosen, would he be saved?" You go and suppose nonsense and I am not going to give you an answer. If a man is not chosen he will never come. When he does come it is a sure proof that he was chosen. Says one, "Suppose any one should go to Christ who had not been called of the Spirit." Stop, my brother, that is a supposition thou hast no right to make, for such a thing cannot happen; you only say it to entangle me, and you will not do that just yet. I say every man who comes to Christ shall be saved. I can say that as a Calvinist, or as a hyper-Calvinist, as plainly as you can say it. I have no narrower gospel than you have; only my gospel is on a solid foundation, whereas yours is built upon nothing but sand and rottenness. "Every man that cometh shall be saved, for no man cometh to me except the Father draw him." "But," says one, "suppose all the world should come, would Christ receive them?" Certainly, if all came; but then they won't come.(emphasis mine)

And with that- God bless and good night. I'm headed to Colombia, South America on Wednesday to preach the great Gospel of a gracious God to deaf people who I pray will hear the message and receive salvation by grace alone, through faith alone. I hope you will pray for me- Thanks.

 

[Winman]

It really isn't about atonement- it is about who WILL hear and respond. Who will? No one but God knows.

Oh, but it is about atonement, and this is why so many Calvinists have rejected Limited Atonement. The fact that Spurgeon and other Calvinists have developed a clever way to talk around the issue does not make the issue go away.

Paul directly told people that Jesus died for their sins.

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

If a person believes that Limited Atonement is true, he cannot honestly say that Jesus died for his own sins, much less any other man. There is simply no way to know that if Limited Atonement is true.

1 Jhn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If you believe Limited Atonement is true, then you cannot say as John did that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.

 

[reformed_baptist]

Can any of you actually answer my question?

The question is a pointless one we don't expect every doctrine of scripture to be found in every single discourse of the bible, if that was the case we would only need one discourse. Of course we could turn the question round and ask where do we find your gospel in Peter's words, but that would be just as pointless.

The reality is that when one takes the glasses of their traditions off they see that a monergistic mindset permeates Peter's words, even down to his explanation of the contingency/ responsibility of secondary sources, v 23.

Then there is his confident efforts at persuasion - only made possible because Peter is relying upon the Holy Spirit to regenerate his hearers hearts.

Then in v37 we see conviction of sin, which is the result of regenertaion, and this comes before the peopel repent and believe, v38. Then right at the end Peter amkes it clear that the promises is salvation is for all who 'the Lord our God will call.' in those wordsa alone we see Paul was either a clavinism 9excuse the anachronism) or a universalist. If he believed God called everyone then he also clearly believed all would be saved - however if peter believed in the biblical doctrine of election then he believed all the elect would eb saved!

 

[HeirofSalvation]

They have no rational scripture answer here AMYG....so they have to abuse
jn 1:9....and jn 12:32....to attempt a mystical answer.

I say mystical because they abuse the context of each verse, then they ascribe an open meaning......you know...somewhere ,somehow, it gets done fairly.....everyone gets an equal and fair chance. They cannot begin to give an actual answer however...as we have seen many times:wavey:

There are NUMEROUS possible answers to the above question from a non-Calvinist perspective. You appear to be unfamiliar with them, but they do exist. The question is problematic and difficult to answer from any soteriological point of view. The question is not easy for ANY soteriology, some views leave better possibilities than others. I am not sure how you answer this one, but you are acting as though yours is the same as any and all Cals on it. I have heard several different possible explanations to this question from 5-pointers like yourself as well.

Are you pretending that this question is a problem ONLY for non-Cals? It is dis-ingenuous to do so I think. Point is, I have heard MANY reasonable answers to it, which conform to the Scriptures....You should probably get out more if you have never heard them.

 

[Iconoclast]

For the record: Amyraldians are not Calvinists. They are Amyraldians.

:applause::applause::thumbsup: