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Where was Jesus for 3 days?
- Thread starter Southern Fried Baptist
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timtofly
Well-Known Member
I think most claim in the flood of Noah, it sank into the earth. I doubt God let a 90 year old Garden; just sit around vacant. It was removed upward very soon. No sense in humans constantly attaking the angel with the flaming sword killing themselves endlessly? It was not created for Abraham and his Descendants. It was for the sons of God.
Abraham and the OT saints were not declared righteous to enter Paradise or heaven, until Jesus declared, "It is finished." The Atonement had to happen first.
The 3rd heaven does not necessarily mean God's abode of heaven. It can mean another dimension, which the spirit world is.
37818
Well-Known Member
A special pleading avoiding addressing the Biblical truths on the matter. Disallowing interpretations on the bases of what Scritpure does not say. But your special pleading outside of Scripure is ok.
Jesus was in paradise 3 days. He Himself said He was going there. Thus, that question was answered by Jesus Himself.
But there's NO Scripture saying paradise was moved to heaven. Scripture says that later, hades will be cast into the LOF after it's emptied of all souls in it. And remember, paradise is part of hades.
You may not be IFB - but you are ifb! As a Baptist we are all independent, and I know you believe in the fundamentals of the faith !
timtofly
Well-Known Member
The Garden of Eden was on earth, but never under the earth. Abraham's bosom was the part of Hades. Paradise was in heaven, because that is where the temple is, and the alter. The Garden of Eden was a designated spot for all of Adam's descendants. Big enough to house 30 billion or more sons of God. History after the Flood, was only the descendants of Adam. Not all choose to be who they should be, but God designed the Garden, Paradise, His Temple for His Chosen people to have room for all. God does not force humans to go there, nor force them to stay away. The New Jerusalem is a great indication of the size, and it comes down from heaven. It never had to come out of Hades. There is no Scripture that says it sunk into the earth. The thief on the Cross was bodily in Paradise that day. By bodily it was a ghost that the soul could be recognizable. The dead earthly body went back to dust. God was there, because Jesus Christ was fully God. The ghost of Jesus left the cross, and immediately freed and ended the captivity of all the OT saints and many ghost and Jesus' ghost walked the streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days.
There were ghost all over the earth of OT saints who had received God through the witness of Noah all the way to Daniel in Babylon who also was a witness to many scattered throughout India and China. Even the ten tribes were scattered, and God’s testimony went out to all the world even before Daniel. We today have probably a larger human population living at the same time, but God’s plan was not just limited to current living humans, that most just see in their little bubble of life.
The cross was the resurrection of the firstfruits of the church. All those OT saints were in Christ, but their souls had to remain in Abraham's bosom until the Atonement on the cross. It was the same atonement from an expected Messiah/Christ from Noah all the way to Christ, just like today, when billions no longer know that Christ lived a human life 1990 years ago. And not for a lack of such knowledge in one form or another around the world. The deception of Satan has been much greater now, than before. The only difference is before Christ there was only Hope and Faith. After Christ was God on earth, it was recorded history.
No, paradise is in hades, & "Abe's bosom" is another name for it. At a dinner table, the Romans reclined on their left elbows & fed themselves with their R hand, a practice picked up from the Greex. They generally lay on couches with pillows to do so. This often put a man at the bosom of the man behind him & the Jews did as the Romans did in that respect. Sitting at a table to eat didn't come til years later.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Show me a verse in the Bible where the angel of the Lord stopped guarding Paradise with a flaming sword.
Are you saying that God let folks back into Paradise even before the Atonement was given, but He made the Judaizers enter the Holy of Holies until the cross? Show me one verse in the OT mentioning Paradise.
The cross had to happen, and Paradise was never confined to hell. Only Satan comes out of the pit, not Paradise. For one thing, we do not know if God opened Paradise for some of the sons of God. Only Adam and sinners could not enter. It was not a prison cell. It was a house of blessing for all sons of God to come and be blessed. If Satan was welcomed, I assume all angels were welcomed at times. To say it was banished to hell, has no proof, or you would have given one. I doubt John Milton in 1667 had inspired revelation outside of the Bible.
Paradise is not the garden of Eden. It's part of hades.
Most of your concepts are goofy.
Hades is not hell, That wrong idea comes from the KJV's mistranslation of hades. Hell is the lake of fire.
Try a little Bible study.
I thought Jesus was dead for three days--and in the grave.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
It is called sheol. Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14
My bible never says “Paradise is part of Hades.” Which one are you studying?
They haven't been cast in yet, as is evidenced by the fact that people still die.
And again, "hell" here is hades. The KJV mistranslates sheol and hades as 'hell' several times.
I think you have asked a pretty good question. I have no idea what IFB churches believe on this issue.
I do not think "paradise" moved, it was always the abode of God. Paul uses the term interchangeably with the third heaven, i.e. the abode of God.
Perhaps someone should look up all the verses that address where Jesus was during those "three days?"
Matthew12:40
for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
About Paradise, why would God not spend weeks in the Garden with Adam? If you take the New Jerusalem it would have been similiar with The Garden itself in this earth. The church will exist with God in the New Jerusalem. Why would Paradise, the Garden not be were God and Adam's descendants not have lived, were it not for Adam's disobedience? At the flood the Garden moved to heaven and still considered the presence of God, but no one on earth could enter until the Cross. Then the temporary Abraham's bosom was disbanded and the saints after 3 days ascended to Paradise where now the entrance to the Garden was opened. I would say the Jesus was walking and talking with the rest of the saints.
His body of flesh was left in the tomb, but after 3 days returned to dust. Because the body was not there. Nor was the body Mary met, the one that was in the tomb. No one can claim that any body of flesh actually goes to where the soul only exist. If the soul actually has a shape that leaves the body, it has never been observed has it? The ground or any physical material would not prevent the soul from moving through. God just does not allow it to happen, except for when God Himself gets involved and moves bodies around.
Now all dead souls are in heaven in Paradise under the alter. Remember that Jesus had a body, soul, and spirit, while also being the fulness of the Godhead on earth. God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Only the human body of flesh was placed in the tomb. It died physically. The human soul and God the Father went to heaven. The soul being with the thief immediately in Paradise. It was with the Power of the Holy Spirit and the ghost of Jesus fleshly Spirit that entered sheol and immediately freed those in Abraham's bosom from the power of death. After 3 days, Jesus Christ and all OT saints ascended to the waiting, God the Father, in Paradise.
Paul says we are instantly with Christ, upon death. The next major body event is the change of those who are alive and we get new bodies in the air. The current flesh dies, and we are given a new body, and our spirit the robe of white, our glorified body.
You're wrong about the body of Jesus. He was resurrected back into it.
Proof ?
He allowed Thomas to feel the scar of the spear wound in His side, & showed Thomas the nail scars in His hands.
And again, Jesus Himself said He would be in PARADISE upon His death. That should answer the questiojn of where His soul was for 3 days & nights til He was resurrected.
And paradise is NOT heaven. Remember, the resurrected Jesus, who had been in paradise, told the women He had NOT yet returned to His Father. And in His parable of the rich man & the beggar Lazarus, we see paradise is part of HADES, the temporary abode of the souls of the dead. Both hades & death are to be cast into the lake of fire. The 'torments' area of hades is not hell.That's a mistranslation in the KJV & some other Bible versions. Hell is the lake of fire.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Proof is the thief died after Jesus. No one was in hell after Jesus died. The same time the vail of the temple was torn was when those in Abraham's bosom came out of their graves and they did not have tangible bodies. Jesus as God retained those marks in an eternal body, not of flesh and blood. Flesh and blood cannot enter Paradise. There was no reason for Paradise to be under the earth. No one could enter it any way. Adam and his descendants could never enter Paradise. It was the Faith of Abraham and his bosom that provided a resting place until the Atonement on the Cross.
Did Enoch not enter Paradise? Was it not in the air? Did not Elijah enter Paradise? Was it not in the air? Where did the body of Moses go? Did not Satan demand it from Michael? It was not on earth, nor in Abraham's bosom, nor in sheol. Moses was alive in Paradise. Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ in glorified bodies and returned to Paradise even before Christ died on the Cross. The 4 beings and the 24 elders were with God in Paradise. They are separate at times from Paradise and those now in Paradise, but that does not mean that they all cannot have been in Paradise. You will have to give Scripture that defines Paradise below earth, because only those allowed up into heaven, ended up in Paradise because that is where it would always be if no longer on earth. Lazarus was with Abraham in Abraham's bosom, because it was Abraham doing the talking, not God from Heaven where Paradise was.
The whole point was the fact that neither Adam nor his descendants could enter Paradise the Garden of Eden, until the one man, Jesus Christ placed the Atonement on the alter. That did not happen until Sunday afternoon. Jesus told Mary that morning, He had not yet ascended to present the Atonement along with the firstfruits. The firstfruits being all of the OT saints. It was only then that Adam and all his descendants who accepted the Messiah and the Atonement in faith, could return to their original home. That was Paradise the Garden of Eden. The exceptions were Enoch, who returned as Elijah, Moses, the thief on the cross (Jesus said on the Cross, "Today, not in 3 days, you will be with me, God in Paradise), and whoever the 24 elders are. The thief was the first convert to die after the Atonement of the Cross. It was the tangible ghost of Jesus Christ with the nail and sword wounds, walking around with the OT saints for 3 days, since they came out of their graves at the same time Jesus Christ gave up the Ghost and immediately freed them from Abraham's bosom.
They all were freed at one time from their graves all over the earth, and were ascended to heaven 3 days later behind their saviour, Jesus Christ. He presented them as the firstfruits along with the Atonement on the alter. John in Revelation 6 says all those slain in Christ are under the alter. Only in the Atonement was Paradise opened back up for all in Christ to enter. It is not until the 5th and 6th seal where those under the alter and those alive in Christ on earth will finally receive the spirit that was separated because of spiritual death when Adam disobeyed. It is the robe of white and glorified body, because the body of Adam in Christ was made complete. There will be some more in the harvest, up until the week of the Second Coming. But at the Second Coming either all humanity left will be killed, or some with their heads chopped off, will live for 1000 more years on earth. The first resurrection after the Second Coming. The last and final resurrection will be all the dead at the end of the 1000 years. It is all literally in black and white in the book of Revelation. The time of the trumpets and thunders will be Jesus as the Lamb doing the harvest in the midst of the tribulation of Jacob's trouble. The church will not be there, because it is only the 144K Jewish disciples that were sealed after the thief in the night event. After they were sealed as the church on earth, the 7th and final seal was opened, and the harvest of goat and sheep, wheat and tares begins.
That is a good scripture to quote for this topic. But what does it mean to be in the heart of the earth? Ps 139:15 might give us a clue: 15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
David seems to be talking about the womb. The place of his creation. Jesus talked about being born again. And perhaps this is what he meant. To come back from the depths of the earth, which in its simplest form, sounds like coming back out of a tomb or grave.
Paradise isn't in the air-it's in another 'dimension'. And there's no Scripture saying paradise was moved to heaven. And hades isn't yet cast into the LOF.
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