That's why I am "Classical Arminian."
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Which are you?
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I meant to say, " Here is the chart from the Articles of the Remonstrants"
Yes 1610 Remonstrance adherence. I don't read article 3 as you do.
"Article III — That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will, inasmuch as he, in the state of apostasyand sin, can of and by himself neither think, will, nor do anything that is truly good (such as having faith eminently is); but that it is needful that he be born again of God in Christ, through his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, or will, and all his powers, in order that he may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the word of Christ, John xv. 5: "Without me ye can do nothing."
I read it and have always understood the "born again" here to be the beginning of the process of the call to Salvation, not the completion.
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To me that is a difference of substantial significance. Good to know.
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How do you define or identify "Historic Northern Regular Baptist," and what do you feel distinguishes them from other Historic Regular Baptists?
In my case, my home church was organized in 1881. The founding charter has the wording:
I believe the "regular" is being used in the same sense as it is used by the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches. I use "Historic" rather than "Fundamental" as my church's theology was fundamental before Fundamental was fun. "Northern", because we were part of the Northern Baptist movement and to show separation from the Old Regular Baptists. Who, I perceive to have roots in the South.
Squire did a good job of describing "regular" when it comes to baptists.
The SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) was formed in 1845 and the NBC (Northern Baptist Convention - now the American Baptist Churches USA) was formed in 1907.
The regular baptists predate both of them. They were mostly descended from the Baptist Union and the Philadelphia Association which grew out of the First Baptist Church of Newport, Rhode Island, founded by Dr. John Clarke in 1637.
As the Convention baptists began to form many of the regular baptists affiliated with the NBC and the SBC.
The GARBC (General Association of Regular Baptist Churches) was formed in 1932 when the regular baptists left the NBC because of the inroads Modernism had made into the NBC.
Most of the SBC was descended from the regular baptists until the Modernist takeover which began in the 1920s.
Many of the regular baptists still in the SBC left to form the WBF (World Baptist Fellowship) in 1933. The break-away BBF (Baptist Bible Fellowship) was formed in 1950 and the IBF (Independent Baptist Fellowship) was formed in 1984.
The SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) was formed in 1845 and the NBC (Northern Baptist Convention - now the American Baptist Churches USA) was formed in 1907.
The regular baptists predate both of them. They were mostly descended from the Baptist Union and the Philadelphia Association which grew out of the First Baptist Church of Newport, Rhode Island, founded by Dr. John Clarke in 1637.
As the Convention baptists began to form many of the regular baptists affiliated with the NBC and the SBC.
The GARBC (General Association of Regular Baptist Churches) was formed in 1932 when the regular baptists left the NBC because of the inroads Modernism had made into the NBC.
Most of the SBC was descended from the regular baptists until the Modernist takeover which began in the 1920s.
Many of the regular baptists still in the SBC left to form the WBF (World Baptist Fellowship) in 1933. The break-away BBF (Baptist Bible Fellowship) was formed in 1950 and the IBF (Independent Baptist Fellowship) was formed in 1984.
Mikey
Active Member
Highly informative.
What are the Theological differences Historic Northern Regular Baptist non-dispensationalist Chiliast have compared to other groups?
No it doesn't
Mikey
Active Member
Can you in your own words explain what makes it separate from Arminianism?
Yes I can
Mikey
Active Member
Thanks. I was mainly curious whether you viewed Northern Regular Baptists as theologically distinct in some ways from other Regular Baptists. Today most Baptists don't use that terminology much anyway. Our churches did not, in the sense of church name, but many of our associations had something in the constitution about being made up of "Regular Baptist Churches."
Wow! Blow me down. Never knew that. I wonder how much time between the heavenly birth and conversion they would allow.
'Reformed' says it couldn't be no more than a nanosecond.
The Bible allows for much, much longer than that.
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'My take' of the Rich Young Ruler - He ran to Christ, kneeled before Him, and saluted Him with language intended for the divine. Christ loved him and did not dispute his claim of doing no ill towards his neighbor. The evidence points to this young man being born from above. Where he messed up is when he asked, "What lack I yet"? And Christ says, 'if you would be perfect sell all and follow me'. Christ actually put it forth to him to become His disciple, and he balked. I agree with Edersheim on this, 'saved' here is not in reference to the eternal salvation of the soul but of entering into the benefits of the kingdom, i.e., new covenant.
Also remember, this is just a photo snap shot of this young man at this moment in time, just as with Nicodemus in Jn 3. Who knows that he did not indeed later on join with the saints in Jerusalem who sold all and held everything in common.
'Pink's take' - "Concerning the rich young ruler of whom it is said Christ "loved him" (Mark 10:21), we fully believe that he was one of God's elect and was "saved" sometime after his interview with our Lord. . . . It is written, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out," and this man certainly did "come" to Him." A.W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God
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Because the "other Regular Baptists" or ORB I've seen on Baptist Board are of a much more Calvinistic flavor. And it's also a matter of culture. And I tend to take a more historical perspective on matters.
Me too.Great. looking forward to your post.
Again, what part of Classical Arminianism do you not agree with?
Historic: Predating the denominational baptist groups.
Northern: as opposed to Southern. As I stated above having our roots firmly planted in the Union/Philadelphia line of descent.
Regular: As opposed to irregular baptists such as Arminian, Free Will, Missionary and OLD regular baptists.
Baptist: That should be obvious.
Non-dispensationalist: Rejecting some or all of the classic dispensationalism of Darby/Scofield.
Chiliast: Historic Pre-Millennialism without the dispensational baggage.
The term has come to be pretty generic, but the root is in what they believed. "Regular Baptist" is simply a generic term that refers to the “regulation” or “rule” (Latin regula) of Scripture. Being a “Regular” Baptist means being part of a church that holds to orthodox Baptist doctrine and affirms the rule of Scripture as the ultimate authority for faith and practice.
That is where the regular baptists broke company with the denominational baptists when they no longer considered the bible to be verbally inspired nor inerrant nor infallible.