Which Church would you join Church A or Church B

[menageriekeeper]

She is what you call a Type A personality and it is a struggle for her to submit to my spiritual leadership, but she feels that God is doing a work in me right now and wants to honor God by submitting to the decision I make about the churches.

Anytime I hear the word "submission" used in this manner, I always have to take a second look to be sure its being used in the proper manner. So don't get offended by what I'm about to say until I'm done. (manner meaning in conjuction with a skirts only, KVJO church)

You need to sit your wife down and have a serious discussion about why she is drawn strongly to church B. What about church B (with its standoffish people) says "this is a better place to be" to your wife? You both need to make sure that she doesn't have some idea that a church which profers rules to live by is somehow a more holy church or somehow God is more pleased with Christians who live with a strong set of (arbitrary) standards than those who are not.

Standards are fine, don't get me wrong. But scripture ALWAYS trumps the standards of men. If skirt wearing is derived from a desire to look feminine and modest as possible, then that is fine. But if women wearing pants is put up to be a standard to judge the spirituality of others, then it is NOT fine! It's also not fine for her to think that "obeying the rules" somehow has an effect on her salvation or worse, that "obeying the rules" is her salvation. (that the blood of Christ was insuffecient and she must work to maintain her salvation)

Same with the whole KJVO thing. I'm KJV perferred myself, for the simple reason that when I was a child, we didn't have access to all these new translations and all my memory work was done in a KJV. But I also enjoy reading and comparing with other translations and I don't believe the men who translated the KJV were any more "inspired" by God than any other translator. (I was taught this to be true as a child though)

The whole "submission" issue is another point which is sometimes taken to an extreme. Does your wife realize that the other side of "wives submit to your husbands" is "husbands love your wife as Christ loves the church"?

The spirit of submission is not for a wife to make herself unhappy so you can be happy and I doubt that you would be happy if she were not! You two have to work together to make the decision that allows you both to attend the church that best suits your need to grow in the Lord.

Its a proper excercise of your spiritual leadership to be certain your wife isn't "obeying the rules" with a wrong idea of why she should. It is not a proper exercise of your spiritual leadership to make arbitrary decisions about where to go to church (or for that matter, anything else!) Its also not fair to you that she burden you with the final decision. It is possible for you two to find a church you BOTH agree on! And that is the end result that you both should be looking toward, even if that means visiting other churches and/or denominations.

 

[DeaconPhil]

Just to clarify is he KJ only or KJ very perfered ( I understand about the TR)
And is the KJ the main issue, or do you have major issues with the other items:

A. congregation is standoffish.
B. music traditional only
C.legalistic tendencies (i.e. thinks women should wear skirts, equates drinking alcohol with adultery, considers Liberty & BJU are liberal)

If so, how intent is your wife on those issues (including KJ)

I don't know all the "divisions" of the KJVO movement, but I woul describe Pastor B as being somewhere in the middle of "We prefer the KJV, but it's not any more accurate than the other versions" and "We can correct the Original Maunscripts with the KJV".

The legalism does bothers me some, but it's not the sole deciding factor.

My wife believes as I do that KJOlyism is wrong, but she loves the pastor at church B so much she is willing to look past the KJVO error.

 

[DeaconPhil]

You married one of them too, huh? I feel for you, DeacnPhil. Our first year of marriage was like boot camp. I didn't realize how she REALLY was until after the wedding when she ripped off her human disquise to reveal the reptillian queen from the show V.
It is evident that your wife cannot wear the pants anymore--especially if you choose Church B! :laugh:

But seriously:
Which way is God leading you? Is he sending you to a third one you don't know yet?
Although there never was a perfect church this side of Glory, could it be that God is leading you to a "Church C"? And if you do not pick bapticostal Church B, will your wife really be OK with it? I don't think you are being too picky when you have told us what you like and don't like in a church; I think maybe you have to ask yourself "what does God like?" Maybe that is the answer.

Friend, I think you misunderstand me about my wife, we have an awesome marriage! She is in Love with me and I am in Love with her and nothing will EVER tear us apart. She had to deal with the submission issue when we were engaged and, IMO after 12 years of marriage, she is very close to the virtuous women in Proverbs.

To answer your questions...

My wife says she will honor whatever church I choose, I take her at her word.

As far as "what does God like" - that is what I amtrying to figure out. I've been in prayer asking God to make it obvious to me and I'm struggling to understand God's will here. Thanks.

 

[DeaconPhil]

I'd choose B. Mainly for the reason that you are being fed spiritually more at church B.
Have you tried showing yourself friendly to those who seem reserved? Maybe you just need to break the ice?

Is the pastors view on the colleges and women's wearing skirts/dresses affecting you in any way?

As for the alcohol, do you drink? Is his stand against alcohol affecting you? I would say calling it adulterous is probably not the best way to describe it..although it CAN and (from friends in the past) HAS led to adultery lol..

Im an Independent fundamental baptist, and I love my church.


As for the Southern Baptist,
I don't think the pastor should set "time limit on baptism to gain membership. Although I believe someone should get baptisted soon after receiving Christ, that shouldn't be a selling point for church membership (call within the next 5 minutes and you get a free membership..lol..type thing)

Hope you find your home church!

Thanks MamaCW!,

To answer your questions...

I am a friendly guy, but I am not the most outgoing person. But the difference in "spirit" between the two congregations was very evident to me. And as someone already mentioned, I'm sure the longer I went to church B the closer I would get to their congregation. This is not the most important criteria to me, it was just an observation.

As far as alcohol, both Pastors have a legalistic view of it IMO. Pastor B's view is worse. No, I do not drink. My view on alcohol is that alcohol in itself is not "bad" or "evil" and having a glass of wine or a bottle of beer is not a sin. This is a christian liberty issue to me. Now having said that, I would never drink alcohol around some in my family, because they are alcoholic and I do not want to be a stumbling block to them.

 

[DeaconPhil]

Menageriekeeper, thanks for your response!

I am in no way a hard handed husband, if anything I probably should be more firm in some of my family decisions. I am not a born leader, I am a better supporter and follower than a leader. Please trust me when I say, my wife and I have a wonderful relationship. The reason I am the one making the decision to chose a church is because my wife has willingly and voluntarily chose to let me make that decsion, let me explain...

My wife has gone to some of the churches that we visited. At least one of those churches my wife made relationships rather quickly, while I was hesitant to attach to anyone emotionally, because I was more involved in checking out the church and what the pastor believed and if this the right church for us. needless to say when we would decide that said church was not the one for us, she would feel bereft. A couple times of bereftness and she refuses to be involved in making the decision. This does bother me some, but it's her decision and I will respect her decision. I guess it's a "Men are from Mars Women are from Venus" kind of thing

 

[Jkdbuck76]

As far as "what does God like" - that is what I amtrying to figure out. I've been in prayer asking God to make it obvious to me and I'm struggling to understand God's will here. Thanks.

If you have been in prayer, then you are on the right track. Question: what if the pastor of Church B left/died/retired....would your wife want to still belong there?

 

[DeaconPhil]

If you have been in prayer, then you are on the right track. Question: what if the pastor of Church B left/died/retired....would your wife want to still belong there?

We had discussed this and we would leave Church B. If the same thing happened at Church A, we would stay.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

We had discussed this and we would leave Church B. If the same thing happened at Church A, we would stay.

So there you go: the main factor in your mind is the preaching/preacher. Now if you could just get Preacher B to go to Church A, you'd be alright. But that isn't going to happen....


DeaconPhil, I think God will use you and your wife wherever you go.

 

[DeaconPhil]

So there you go: the main factor in your mind is the preaching/preacher. Now if you could just get Preacher B to go to Church A, you'd be alright. But that isn't going to happen....


DeaconPhil, I think God will use you and your wife wherever you go.

Your question does signify to me an important part of the decision...
Which is more important: the church constitution and church congregation or the church pastor? Obviously Church A wins that argument. After all, I'm joining a church not a pastor. Mmmm maybe that's the answer.

Thanks Jkdbuck

 

[Ed B]

Your question does signify to me an important part of the decision...
Which is more important: the church constitution and church congregation or the church pastor? ..... After all, I'm joining a church not a pastor.
Thanks Jkdbuck

For me this is key in chosing a church. If there is too much reliance on the Pastor I am nervous, and history says the things drawing many to that church will eventually change and so will the membership.

 

[DeaconPhil]

For me this is key in chosing a church. If there is too much reliance on the Pastor I am nervous, and history says the things drawing many to that church will eventually change and so will the membership.

I can't tell you how much I felt a connection to the congregation at ChurchA. Their constitution was the most biblically accurate of all the churches I visted. It's just I'm frustrated with the pastor and his stand on the issues I mentioned in the Original post. Also whatever church I join I want to feel that I can support the Pastor 100%.

 

[PeterM]

Only the one God leads me to join...

You question presupposes that I have a choice in the matter. It also lends itself to the notion that I "choose" a church based on the amenities it offers, sort of like buying a car.

Could it be possible that God might lead us to a faith family that is sorely lacking in a particular area that He wants me to bolster and strengthen. As a pastor, I am always grateful for the folks who join where I serve saying, "God is leading me here. This is what I bring to the table... what can I do."

Pray pray pray...

 

[DeaconPhil]

Only the one God leads me to join...

You question presupposes that I have a choice in the matter. It also lends itself to the notion that I "choose" a church based on the amenities it offers, sort of like buying a car.

Could it be possible that God might lead us to a faith family that is sorely lacking in a particular area that He wants me to bolster and strengthen. As a pastor, I am always grateful for the folks who join where I serve saying, "God is leading me here. This is what I bring to the table... what can I do."

Pray pray pray...

the Pastor of Church A asked me if I felt "called" to join Church A. Honestly at this point I don't feel "called" to either church. The decision is pretty much a which is the lessor of two evils decision (sorry, don't know how else to say it).

 

[menageriekeeper]

Are there no other churches you can consider in the area?

About the pastor of church A, how long has he been there?

I've been at my church for around 11 years. In that length of time we have gone through 3 pastors, a complete change in staff and are on our 4th senior pastor at the moment (he's the one that got stuck brining in a whole new staff after the church voted to let the others go on to new opportunities).

The congregation however, is practically the same. By that I mean, that though new members come and old members move on the spirit of the church has remained the same. I'm as comfortable in my church today as I was when I joined and that's something to look for when considering a church.

 

[Old Union Brother]

My best advice is pray for guidence......My rule of thumb is if the preacher isn't preaching the gospel of the son of man then they an't preaching.....

 

[DeaconPhil]

Are there no other churches you can consider in the area?

About the pastor of church A, how long has he been there?

I've been at my church for around 11 years. In that length of time we have gone through 3 pastors, a complete change in staff and are on our 4th senior pastor at the moment (he's the one that got stuck brining in a whole new staff after the church voted to let the others go on to new opportunities).

The congregation however, is practically the same. By that I mean, that though new members come and old members move on the spirit of the church has remained the same. I'm as comfortable in my church today as I was when I joined and that's something to look for when considering a church.

Pastor A has been there for only one year. He's a new Pastor in the area, but not new to the SBC. He's definately an "SBC guy", which I'm not a big fan of but as long as the church understands it is autonomous and holds the "Associations" accountable -I'm okay with it.

 

[SaggyWoman]

I would choose church A but occasionally visit B and see if the pastor of B would host a small group at his house.

 

[drfuss]

If support means agree with, gool luck unless you swallow hook, line and sinker everything the pastor says because he is the pastor. The only pastor I ever had that I agreed with on everything was my first pastor after I was saved. Looking back now, there was likely some things I would not agree with now after studying the Bible for myself.

 

[DeaconPhil]

If support means agree with, gool luck unless you swallow hook, line and sinker everything the pastor says because he is the pastor. The only pastor I ever had that I agreed with on everything was my first pastor after I was saved. Looking back now, there was likely some things I would not agree with now after studying the Bible for myself.

You make a good point, I guess support should be more of a respecting of his position and standing behind him.

 

[menageriekeeper]

You know, at our church we send volunteers to the associational meetings. Church Admin tell the congregation (usually on a Wed night) how many representatives need to go and a show of hands later we have our representatives. I've had a couple of chances to go, but haven't been able to fit it into my schedule.

So if you want to keep the Association accountable, make room in your schedule to go represent your church.

Since church A's pastor is relatively new, it may be that he has judged the maturity of the overall congregation to be lacking in some respects and is laying the foundation for more meatier subjects to come. It takes our church about 18 months or so to get used to a new man and he to us(which is the harder task, cause we are a hard church to pastor!).